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Foiling Speed!
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
I sail Berkeley.
What takes 3 minutes to go from Marina to Emeryville now takes 4 minutes on the foil.
Boring to death. Unless you like precarious balancing and constant attention the whole time. All while foiling slower than anything on the water except dinghys.


Let's see ... Marina to Emeryville is about 1 mile or 0.87 nautical miles. So at a speed of 32.93 knots would take Goyard and his Iris foil 0.87/32.93 = 0.026 hours to complete the journey.

That is 1.6 minutes ... so yes, you are going slow Very Happy
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good one, but is the wind right at Lordshop and is Emeryville a static location?
Since you go slower than me windsurfing...ask Kevin, Sofien, Vasco, or any of the racers.....you'd take longer
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windsurfing 1 mile in 3 minutes on the windsurfer gives 20 mph. That's a typical windsurfing speed for choppy conditions.

Foiling a mile in 4 minutes gives 15 mph. That's a typical speed for intermediates on a Naish or Slingshot freeride foil.

If you take a faster foil and put in the time and effort, you can go a lot faster. You don't have to be a PWA sailor, either. A foiler from Western Australia has done a one-hour average of 27.9 mph (24.2 knots). His other numbers on the foil are not too bad, either, and include a 28.3 knot nautical mile.

For comparison: his one hour average on the foil would get him the #3 ranking on the US speedsurfer on the GPS Team Challenge. Internationally, it places him in the top-10 percent (160 of 1703).

His top speeds on the foil are still 10 knots slower than on a windsurfer. But speedsurfing competitions and slalom racing are a few decades old, while windfoil racing is just starting to explore slalom-like formats.
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wsatl



Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SS (with a big wing) or Naish were never intended to be fast foils. A bunch of foils with 800-1000 ish wings are faster for the avg intermediate and can easily avg 17-20 more.

The really big and/or thick wings are good for 8-12 mph wings or the big guys who just need the area to get going. Horses for courses and all that. Smile

With a little TOW you find you don't give up much speed to the freeride guys and, soon enough, you'll find yourself with more range making any give up in speed worthwhile. They may be faster than you in a gust but if there's a lull, you'll be out and back and they'll still be trying to get on a plane all while you are sporting 2m less sail than they are.

The other thing you're gaining is the ability to go at greater angles up/downwind. If someone insists on a drag race, just point up wind, play in a different zip code and then enjoy the sleigh ride home.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
... You don't have to be a PWA sailor, either. A foiler from Western Australia has done a one-hour average of 27.9 mph (24.2 knots). His other numbers on the foil are not too bad, either, and include a 28.3 knot nautical mile.

For comparison: his one hour average on the foil would get him the #3 ranking on the US speedsurfer on the GPS Team Challenge. Internationally, it places him in the top-10 percent (160 of 1703).
...
...


Yep, and that does not take into account water conditions. Top speed in open water seems to top out at around 35-37 knots. To go above that for longer than 10s one has to find a VERY flat spot AND a long enough at that! Speed racing in places like Maui were mostly a hunt for an elusive 100 meters of relatively flat water, they did not even measure the standard 500m runs! My tops (with a tiny 52 wide cm slalom board) have been a few (suspicious) 35-36 knots (2s), a bunch of 30-31-32 knots (10s), all in the flattest conditions I could find.

My impression is that foiling is opening up a completely different little universe in open water when it comes to average, long distance, speed. One where water conditions are much less important ...


Last edited by dvCali on Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:56 am; edited 3 times in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still thinking of getting a 600 sq.cm. foil so I have some speed for medium wind and my 1220 Naish for sub 15.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dlee,

Try the new Naish Jet 1150. It is significantly faster than the Thrust & almost 2 lbs. lighter.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just go to the Kitefoil 600?
Plenty of lift with 600, and hopefully lower drag.
Probably need ws speed, but that's what we're looking for.
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marc5



Joined: 21 Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Location: SW Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novaan, thanks for your posts, especially your handling of too much front lift. Similar problem here on first gen Slingshot Dialer 145L with original front wing, and then upgrade to Infinity 76. Started in B position of fuselage. Sweet spot may be between A and B. Maybe pay up for next gen board with track for foil? I know some Naish folks have tried shimming rear wing. You?

Thanks,
Marc
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Older Naish is adj rear wing rake.
New isn't.
Seems rear needs just a bit of down pressure to lift front wing.
Adjust strap position and MB position on Tuttle base setups.
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