Harness line width

[marshallhaines]

Curious to hear peoples thoughts on how far apart your harness line attachment points should be and pros/cons of wide vs. narrow. Ive been taught to keep them as close as possible, but looking at others and magazines seems to show 8-10 apart. thx.

[Windlover]

Old school rule of thumbs were; a shaka and a half, shoulder width, & whatever feels comfortable. This was on older sails that did not have a stable draft (where the CE of the sail is). Cambers did a lot back then to increase the stability of the draft. New sail technology has the draft practically locked in.

Thus the ability to have the harness lines really close together. Wave sailors usually have them close while Formula racers tend to be the 8-10 spread that you see. It still is somewhat of a preferance as to the distance.

Pros/cons, narrower usually means you have the sail rigged properly, harness lines placed properly, you are dialed on your gear. Wider could mean all this too, but could also be unstable draft from sail not rigged right, inexperience, or just a preferance. Good ? and Im interested in hearing other pros/cons.

[jsmin]

Mine are about 4-5 or slightly wider than my fist.

Jsmin

[leonw]

Have to go w/jsmin on this one; I usually run mine about 4-6 apart. This allows more sensitivity to the change in conditions and for better response. Very difficult to take advantage of the range in todays gear w/o tuning properly. Thats the biggest problem I see w/my students and others on the water: Tuning is key. Nothing will increase your fun and time on the water like being dialed in. Decades of experience are great, but you must still rely on the fundamentals and be able to change w/the times; I also remember when harness line length went on for days. The quality of booms today makes the go wide or it will break a bogus argument. If it breaks, it breaks, thats why warranties exist. I learned to sail on lakes, before moving to the coast, and have always sailed overpowered and have broken one boom (bought used). LeeD, you have been known to give some good advice on these forums, but youre leading this guy way off base on this one. Hope this helps....Leon

[coachg]

Hi Marshall,
Everyone is different on how they place their harness lines. I like mine close, about shaka width apart. I may be wrong, but harness lines should act like an extra pair of arms and hands. A person who grabs the boom with a wide grip can not sheet in and out as effectively as a person with a narrow grip. Same with harness lines. Wider harness lines will prevent the sail from sheeting out as much as narrow harness lines. Try this while you are sitting at your desk, reading this. Spread your arms wide like you are going to do a bench press with your hands outside of your elbows by about 4 inches. Try moving your arms in and out like you were sheeting in a sail. You cant move them very far. Now move your hand so they are in front of your shoulders and try sheeting in and out. You will notice you have much more range of motion. So do narrow harness lines. So I guess I have to go with Leon on this issue, narrow is better.

[carl]

LeeD, please tell us why we should care if Bill Corns sails Crissy better than the rest of us, better is pretty subjective in this sport anyway.
The origional post asked about harness lines. If you place them close together, the sail feels more responsive but it is also less forgiving of the placement of the center-of-effort (COE). With the lines 30 wide like Bill, the COE doesnt have to be in the center of the lines, but the sail doesnt feel responsive.

[gemoore]

Interesting series of responses. I agree with LeeD in that lots of sailors seem to be able to make all kinds of harness line settings work. That said, I like them close together...one hands width.

The main reason is for smaller sail in gusty winds, but it applies somewhat to big sails in light air where you need a gentle touch. My personal style led me, for a long time, to be TOO aggressive and I was oversheeting the sail at times, especially when there were gusts and brief changes in wind direction. This is more of an inland sailing problem, and the issue is that (especially for small sails) you can sheet in too much with the back hand and briefly stall the sail. Like handlebars on a dirt bike, you want to let the sail go with the flow a little bit when this happens. So the sail will have to change its angle relative to YOU in order to maintain its angle of attack to the wind. When you have a wide grip, wide lines, the sail just doesnt respond well in this manner. Narrow grip, balanced setup, narrow lines, allow the sail to vascillate in the wind a bit, and keep the DRAG low. This is more important in sizes near 4.0 (which are easily oversheeted) and in 9.0 (which are used in lighter air that is easy to break the flow over the sail). In the 5.5-7.5 range, Im not sure its all that important, at least in my hands.

GEM

[carl]

LeeD,
I think most people here would agree that youre a very good sailor. My question is why do you have to taint your advice with this im better than you attitude? It seems like were back in grade school.
Back to line placement, I agree with you, its a matter of personal preference where you put them. Although about the earlier point-loading statement, in theory, youre right BUT I have never seen a carbon boom break at the harness lines, its usually at the head.

[alvaro001]

hey leed, you must be in love with that BILL dude ha, wow