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Dedicated Windsurf Foil Sails
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Mgoetz



Joined: 06 Jun 1997
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:43 pm    Post subject: Dedicated Windsurf Foil Sails Reply with quote

I need to replace an old 6.2 sail and was considering going with a dedicated or cross foil sail since that would be its primary use. Has anybody tried a dedicated windsurf foil sail - any difference or benefits? If so, recommendations? It seems that they're marketed as being lighter with a cost that's comparable or even less than a regular windsurf sail. Thanks.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1544

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used this type of sail. I think that they might make a small difference in getting up on foil but not much better than a nice wave sail. If you're just going to foil than maybe. I think getting any sail that has a large tunning range, will work. If you plan to windsurf with the sail, look to something like the Ezzy cross of similar type. Also a sail that de-powers like a wave sail helps because once up on foil, you need way less power to say on foil. Weight is an overrated issue. A few ounces just aren't noticeable. Durability is worth any weight gains. If your foiling for fun and don't real care about going super-fast or racing, go with a wave sail...
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with above.
I have dozens of wave sails, and Hydras in 4,5,5.5, and Sport 6.7.
They work similar, but Hydras have draft lower.
Higher draft pumps slightly better.
Lower draft is more stable and rangy on foil.
Hydras are definitely lighter.
I use both.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not into foiling, you have to look at the specific design features that sail designers have highlighted and tweaked to gain superior performance in this segment. If wave sails offered 100% of what's needed, why would foil focused sails be developed? Frankly, I would take stock on what the leading sail brands making foil focused sail designs are producing and pick the winner in your book.

If I was to pick a brand, I would lean heavily towards Sailworks. In addition to making exceptionally good quality sails, they offer the support that few other brands can match, particularly professional sail repair and service here in the US.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have the money, you can choose to believe marketing.
A sail is just a source of power, nothing else.
A 1983 Neil Pryde Tri Radial 4.1 has more power than any modern sail, and is lighter in weight....and possibly cheaper.
For windfoil, rec not race, I can use a 4.1 in about 11-19 mph breezes.
A windfoil racer is using a 9.2 sized sail.
I can windsurf full speed with a 7 meter sail.
I need a 6.0 wing to power my 1572 foil.
Choices.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How a sail affects a fin vs. foil is not marketing, it is reality. Then there is the type of foiling you are doing; course, slalom or freeride. Seeing as it is a 6.2 you are replacing I'm guessing freeride.

I would agree with NOVAAN that a wave sail works great, especially a 3 or 4 batten wave sail with tighter leech & short boom. I would disagree that any sail would work. Back handy sails designed to power up windsurfing boards on the fin have a tendency to launch foils into the stratosphere so I would recommend staying away from those sails unless you are racing.

However, if a detuned wave sail is going to cost more than a dedicated foil sail, then I would suggest the foil sail.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 2 best windsurf foilers I have ever seen both use non dowhauled wave sails one heavy, one moderate monofilament.
Both are wide head, no twist rigged...so a 1984 sail would be fine.
Power at the top is essential when using tiny sail sizes in moderate breeze. Pumping and waterstarting a tiny sail is aided by old fashioned tight leeches. As an example 185 lbs rider on a 4.4 sail in 12-20 mph breezes, and waterstarting in over 15.
I don't comply. Being older and more feeble, in 12-20 mph, but at 160 lbs., I'd choose fully downfauled 5 meter sails, either Hydra or any one of 7 wave sails I happen to have in the van.
And my skill level is well less than half of the 2 guys I mentioned, KevinK and MikeM.
I think there are more than several ways to skin a cat.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windsurf foil racers, slalom, in 12-20 would be using severely downhauled, full twist 7.8 meter sails.
NONE would use "back hand heavy" sails.
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Mgoetz



Joined: 06 Jun 1997
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the recommendations - certainly appreciated since publications are fewer than they used to be. Seems that there is not a definite consensus though the use of a wave type sail was mentioned several times to help depower. With limited pumping skills, I've been using my existing cambered slalom sails in mostly side-offshore, gusty conditions to get foiling in 10-14 knots. Maybe it's just my experience but it seems that in foiling, one of the big differences is the larger roll apparent wind has and how the foil of the sail provides "lift" than in regular windsurfing. I like the airplane-wing shape that my Ezzy Lion 7.5 provides in spanning the lulls but there is an issue of breaching during a big gust. As mentioned, I am foiling in flatter, slalom like conditions.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is ALWAYS a risk of breaching in wind or wing foiling.
The rider provides the solution.
By rigging an appropriate size and tuning for the skill, weight, and windspeed of the conditions.
That's why most riders have variable sail/wing sizes, AND variable foil sizes.
You choose what you think is best for the current conditions.
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