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Wing efficiency compared to sail
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:46 pm    Post subject: Wing efficiency compared to sail Reply with quote

I am planning to try winGsurfing from windsurfing next summer,
I weigh 90 kg and I will use a 5.4 m Slingwing V2 on a 220 l, 85cm wide Tahe board, with no foil,, just a retractable central fin and a 38 cm rear fin. It will be on a lake, mostly in light winds (10-15 knts.).

In these conditions, I am just curious to know what to expect. Things being equal, how does a wing compare, in terms of wind efficiency and, ultimately, speed, to a regular windsurfing sail of the same size, without a foil?

Of course I won't go supersonic, bu then I am not a speed buff..I'd think that just doing away with the weight of the rig, will give me some advantage over a traditional windsurfing sail. In addition, I hear that the wing because of its design is inherently more efficient than a regular sail, but I am no engineer ..

Thanks for your comments

Ittiandro
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With your board, a 5.5 wing is LESS POWERFUL than a 5.5 sail.
With a 10 lbs 24" wide board and 1350 foil, you will foil in around 13 mph if you applied expert skill level.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
With your board, a 5.5 wing is LESS POWERFUL than a 5.5 sail.
With a 10 lbs 24" wide board and 1350 foil, you will foil in around 13 mph if you applied expert skill level.


Which means that with a 5.4 m wing I have to forget about even moving (!?) on my board in less than 12-15 knts winds?

Yes, from my windsurfing experience, a 5.5 m2 sail would barely move the board in these type of winds, but I hoped that a wing, coupled with a lesser weight ( no rig) , would pack more power, as some other people say. If not, it is a grim prospect indeed.

It is also possible, of course, that in the mind of some, probably younger, people, the addictive craze of wing foiling has set a new speed standard and a new trend, whereby they think there is really ..no life without a foil and plodding around without one seems dated, too slow and ultimately worthless…
Anyway, I’ll try it out next summer. Thanks for your comment


Ittiandro
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A wing is efficient on a foil, not so much off the foil. I don't think I would be far off if I said a 4.0 windsurfing sail would be more powerful than your 5.4 Slingwing off the foil. When off the foil you will not be able to create maximum power from your wing because if you try to hold the wing perpendicular to the water the wing tips will catch.

If you are going to be using the wing for non-foiling, I would suggest a smaller wing, maybe 3.5-4.0 where the tips are less likely to catch. Bigger wings, 5.5+ are horrible for non-foiling.

Also with non-foiling you will feel all the drag in your arms where with a windsurfing sail you have a harness.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, advanced beginner winging, wind speed for winging 6 meter s-25, 105 liter 17 lbs. board, 1572 or 2140 front foil, is 13-22.
In 13-22 mph, I'm fully planing with 111 Isonic, 44 cm fin, 6.0 freeride sail. Expert level windsurfer.
In 13-22, Naish Hover 122, 1150 front wing, fully powered with any 4.2 sail.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3549

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a really big fin for an Isonic 111. Good to know it still works.
The OP isn't using a foil.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just comparing POWER in various disiplines.
44 is the thinnest, highest aspect fin, by Kinetic, since the demise of Meritex.
I use 44, 40, and 38 for 111. 38 is not reality because it only works when I should be on my 85 liter boards.
Local legend "fastest guy" used 38 on 111 when I'm on 5.5 and 85 liters. I had higher top speed, he killed me in low end and mid range...on his 7 meter Naish and NP's.
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marc5



Joined: 21 Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Location: SW Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience: After almost 40 years windsurfing and a couple winDfoiling I got a two hour lesson with a wing on a big long windsurfer with a centerboard. It was windy (Gorge) and wing handing came easily after years of handling a sail. I had trouble staying upwind without the centerboard down.

I knew I wanted to wingfoil so the next season (2022) I got a full wing setup (board and wing) and used my windfoil foil. SO MUCH FUN--38 sessions and didn't go back to my windsurfer (slapper) or windfoil boards. I just upgraded to a much better foil and with one cold session this month it's even more fun with better glide. I don't know how much experience you have windsurfing or windfoiling, but handling a wing is really quite easy. And with a big foil board and foil it won't take you much time to go in a straight line. Jibing is another thing! So don't waste much time on an old dog with a wing. Get on the foil right away! Marc







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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fun" is subjective.
I wing or windfoil about the same.....about 100 days on each, more better wind when windfoiling.
At now 74, windfoil is easier and less stress on body parts.
Wings are 14 lbs lighter than windsurf rigs.
Wingboards maybe 5 lbs lighter.
Try both, pick your poison.
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marc5



Joined: 21 Oct 2015
Posts: 60
Location: SW Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience: After almost 40 years windsurfing and a couple winDfoiling I got a two hour lesson with a wing on a big long windsurfer with a centerboard. It was windy (Gorge) and wing handing came easily after years of handling a sail. I had trouble staying upwind without the centerboard down.

I knew I wanted to wingfoil so the next season (2022) I got a full wing setup (board and wing) and used my windfoil foil. SO MUCH FUN--38 sessions and didn't go back to my windsurfer (slapper) or windfoil boards. I just upgraded to a much better foil and with one cold session this month it's even more fun with better glide. I don't know how much experience you have windsurfing or windfoiling, but handling a wing is really quite easy. And with a big foil board and foil it won't take you much time to go in a straight line. Jibing is another thing! So don't waste much time on an old dog with a wing. Get on the foil right away! Marc







Very Happy
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