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Are foiling half-straps practical on windsurfing board?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 1:29 am    Post subject: Are foiling half-straps practical on windsurfing board? Reply with quote

Aftermarket hips -- or even OEM knees and ankles -- don't like twisting forces. My hip surgeon strongly advised me to do anything I can to reduce the odds of twisting his handiwork in WSing falls, and it makes me wonder whether foiling half-straps might help.

OTOH, can they even be mounted on a WSing board, and wouldn't their leverage make them pretty quickly pull out of a WSing board deck?

One obvious solution to the fitment question is modifying the deck inserts or fabricating plates into which to mount the half-straps. That's probably too much hassle ... right up to the point my hip fails.
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1400

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure about the straplets, but maybe just stick with using the strapless SeaLion you have for a bit.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My surgeon's concern is long term, so the Sea Lion isn't a practical option unless the hip* isn't solid enough when May rolls around. The Sea Lion offers many recuperation advantages, but there's no way I'd try sailing again this season anyway, as hip failure and revision surgery is a serious emergency with permanent consequences. I'm already many months ahead of most hip replacement patients, but it still takes a year for the traumatized muscles to recover. Even then, a new hip will never be as strong and reliable as it was pre-op because even "minimally" invasive does not equate to "non-" invasive.

* The hip joint itself seems, and should be, solid and pain-free. What is weak and sometimes hurts and gives way is the thigh ... quads, ITB, abductors, and adductors. The doc says that's expected, and was quite pleasantly surprised at what he saw me doing in the gym two weeks post-op, so I'm not worried about it. I just want to minimize the long-term additional risks.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2597
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Are foiling half-straps practical on windsurfing board? Reply with quote

Hey Mike,

Is it just the cost that's keeping you from trying it? My hips are good but the
engineer in me says half straps might be a good solution for you, unless
you're prone to stubbing you foot into them (they're pretty rigid).

I sail with a guy named Gunars (pretty well known in the Gorge). He sails
quite well (and somewhat aggressively) with a replacement hip. I think he's
about 71. (he's also got 2 replacement knees).

Wishing you a quick recovery and some time on the water next season.

-Craig

p.s. I know for you it's anathema, but rigging smaller would reduce the
applied force.

p.p.s but now that I think about it, it would not change the rotational forces
at the end of such a long lever arm ...much. Most of that force will be
your body weight (and motion) in a crash.



isobars wrote:
Aftermarket hips -- or even OEM knees and ankles -- don't like twisting forces. My hip surgeon strongly advised me to do anything I can to reduce the odds of twisting his handiwork in WSing falls, and it makes me wonder whether foiling half-straps might help.

OTOH, can they even be mounted on a WSing board, and wouldn't their leverage make them pretty quickly pull out of a WSing board deck?

One obvious solution to the fitment question is modifying the deck inserts or fabricating plates into which to mount the half-straps. That's probably too much hassle ... right up to the point my hip fails.
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mark



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 181

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the second generation Slingshot half straps on my foil board. While I haven't tried them on my regular windsurfer I think they could work. They have a fore and aft 2 screw mounting setup with about 1 inch centers. This allows them to be installed with 2 screws on a board with a single row of holes. The holes have curved slots so they can be rotated and then secured by tightening the screws. The rotation also allows them to be mounted to a board with double screw inserts.

Make sure you get the second generation version. The angle was different on the first one and you had to have some separate wedges in order to change the height. I think they got it right on the second generation.

Mark
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Are foiling half-straps practical on windsurfing board? Reply with quote

Cost? No. It's the hip until next season, and even then I'll want feedback on mounting and using them before bothering to try it. Thus this thread. The whole idea is to reduce the twisting forces in crashes.

I'm hoping to dramatically increase my TOW next season ... thus my timing on the surgery. I couldn't do much more than mow the lawn this past season, and had to cherry pick conditions because I couldn't risk having to swim or slog. I hope my primary limit next year will be the extreme fatigue due to long term (I hope) impacts of the cancer drugs I've been off of for two seasons now.

Many people have asked me why I rig so big. One of the 25 reasons I’ve listed for it is that it is LESS work -- including less pull on the arms (and thus the rest of the body) -- than rigging smaller and slogging more. i.e., rigging big greatly mitigates the frequency and amplitude of lulls. There’s a reason the blowout racers run 7.0s when everyone else is powered up on 4.0s.

cgoudie1 wrote:
Hey Mike,

Is it just the cost that's keeping you from trying it? My hips are good but the
engineer in me says half straps might be a good solution for you, unless
you're prone to stubbing you foot into them (they're pretty rigid).

I sail with a guy named Gunars (pretty well known in the Gorge). He sails
quite well (and somewhat aggressively) with a replacement hip. I think he's
about 71. (he's also got 2 replacement knees).

Wishing you a quick recovery and some time on the water next season.

I know for you it's anathema, but rigging smaller would reduce the
applied force.

p.p.s but now that I think about it, it would not change the rotational forces at the end of such a long lever arm ...much. Most of that force will be your body weight (and motion) in a crash.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, crap! I knew there'd be a deal-breaker. If I switch to half-straps, what will I do with all my tennis balls?

Seriously, however, I just saw a video on installing half-straps, and my key takeaway was that they flex (at least Slingshots do), which greatly reduces the odds of levering the insert out of the board. That leaves one primary concern: hole spacing. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me how well the hole spacing on a foil board compares to that on a WS board (or just post the standard foil board spacing here). Mark's estimate sounds very promising.

I'm liking this idea. My flat feet (top and bottom) lock into footstraps so effectively that no matter how I set up my straps, they snag my feet too often in falls, especially during bootie season. If they fit WS boards, I'm willing, even eager, to try a set out next spring, then buy (many) more sets if they work. One bad ankle sprain would cost me a season; I don't even want to think about revision hip surgery.

Here's the part that impresses (and almost embarrasses)me: My wife has never even seen or heard of a half-strap or foot hook, yet this was her idea. The minute I mentioned my concerns about aggressive sailing with a fake hip, she said, "Could you buy or fabricate some kind of half strap?" She never fails to come up with good ideas when I'm listing options.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windance confirms Mark's impression that the hole spacing is 1" on both foil and WS boards. First obstacle solved, so it's worth ordering a set, bolting them on, and trying them in the yard long before sailing is safe.

At full speed in heavy chop and gusty wind, extracting a back foot to jibe, finding front and rear footstraps after exiting jibes, and extracting a front foot in a fall are all greatly simplified with half-straps. You don't have to insert a foot into a narrow target, or extract a foot and THEN redirect it to put it where you want it. Instead, you just slide it sideways directly to its new position into or out of its strap ... sort of like sailing my strapless 8-3 windsup, which quickly became pretty intuitive even in full force Gorge winds.

It all makes me wonder what downsides there are to half-straps for windsurfing unless one is doing advanced freestyle, especially aerial, where the straps function as handles being yanked in all directions. OH ... I know one downside: $30 per hook for a large quiver of boards. Oh, well ... no one said this is an inexpensive sport, and $1,500 beats revision surgery and a permanent ban on WSing.

Next ... maybe final ... question: Is there a clear winner in half-strap/foot hook brands, or do I have to drive into Hood River, fondle the options, and guess?
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2597
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Are foiling half-straps practical on windsurfing board? Reply with quote

I understand your penchant for bigger sails. Bart always used to say
" rig big for the holes", and it's amazing how larger rigs seem to smooth
out gusty holey conditions.

My point was that a bigger sail is going to impart more force in a crash.
But as I also said in the p.s. most of the dangerous
force to your custom hip will be through rotational forces and the main
mass will be your body. So the sail may have little impact.

Wishing you the best possible recovery, and injury free time on the
water next season.

-Craig

isobars wrote:


Many people have asked me why I rig so big. One of the 25 reasons I’ve listed for it is that it is LESS work -- including less pull on the arms (and thus the rest of the body) -- than rigging smaller and slogging more. i.e., rigging big greatly mitigates the frequency and amplitude of lulls. There’s a reason the blowout racers run 7.0s when everyone else is powered up on 4.0s.

cgoudie1 wrote:
Hey Mike,

Is it just the cost that's keeping you from trying it? My hips are good but the
engineer in me says half straps might be a good solution for you, unless
you're prone to stubbing you foot into them (they're pretty rigid).

I sail with a guy named Gunars (pretty well known in the Gorge). He sails
quite well (and somewhat aggressively) with a replacement hip. I think he's
about 71. (he's also got 2 replacement knees).

Wishing you a quick recovery and some time on the water next season.

I know for you it's anathema, but rigging smaller would reduce the
applied force.

p.p.s but now that I think about it, it would not change the rotational forces at the end of such a long lever arm ...much. Most of that force will be your body weight (and motion) in a crash.
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GarryW



Joined: 11 Mar 2001
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this post Mike. I am a type two diabetic with neuropathy in both feet. While I have no problem finding the front foot strap but finding the back strap is more of a challenge and I'm hoping maybe a half strap will be the answer to my issue. I looked at the three different ones at Windance and I think I'm going to go with the Dakine half strap.
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