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Toll to Access TI
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1301

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
JPF—thanks for the citations, I’ll run them down. What I wrote was not accurate, the City has prepared an addendum, not a supplement. CEQA allows preparation of an addendum for minor changes in a project that do not change the level of impacts or require mitigation. Such a document is not required to be circulated for comment. What SF has prepared includes no actual analysis of what the impact would be, simply a conclusion. In my opinion, it doesn’t survive the giggle test.

In fact, the objectives of TIMMA are 1) to set tolls high enough to decrease all trips, including recreational trips, by 50%, and 2) to generate enough money to pay for the transit system. The transit system is a ferry to San Francisco and a shuttle bus from the condos on Treasure Island to the ferry. It provides no access for recreational users, it is a commute system. It is hard to imagine concluding that a 50% decrease in recreational travel by car is not a significant impact.

Mac ... TIMMA, and city hall, are deceiving the public on purpose. There are literally billions to be made for the so-called housing development of TI. Exactly like the development of China Basin in San Francisco, it is a give away to luxury real estate developers. That, China Basin, after tons of promises, resulted in wall to wall cement with no green space and zero affordable housing.

The cinch in the armor of the luxury development of TI is the Bay Bridge. Who is going to pay $1,000,000-$4,000,000 for a one-three bedrooms apartment when he/she can barely get off the Island?

So here comes the ferry commuting service. It is already advertised by the developer! (they also have private boat docks planned.) But it has to be cheap, and therefore has to be payed ... by the general public (not the owners of the luxury houses!).

If they cared about limiting traffic on the Bay Bridge the solution would be easy: do not allow luxury development at TI. But they did, and the game is up: we will all be paying to go visit a gated community for the rich!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17041
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dv--you are largely correct. It is my understanding that the City of San Francisco re-negotiated the development agreement for the Treasure Island development to the benefit of the developer. It leaves the city on the hook for paying for the transportation mitigation measures that they promised in the final EIR. Then they apparently did some more work, and found that even with the subsidies that are available through Regional Measure 3, they would have to keep the price of the ferry low in order to convince people to ride it. So lo and behold, they want to charge everybody, no matter what was said in the final EIR.

It is not yet a done deal; the Board of Supervisors would have to vote, by a 2/3 margin, to adopt the tolls. In doing so, they would have to find that "the congestion pricing fees have a relationship or benefit to the motor vehicle drivers who are paying the fee." That relationship has to be reasonably close. Of course, since what they are using the fees for is a commuter ferry and a shuttle bus to the commuter ferry, and none of those facilities goes anywhere near the launches, and doesn't really serve most of the other recreational activities, that is a tough finding to make. Their effort so far is pathetic, but lets see how it plays out.
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jpf18



Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 337
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
lets see how it plays out.
Has it ever come up to raise a fee on property owners to help mitigate traffic impacts, i.e.help finance the ferry? This could be similar to the wildfire prevention fee in risk areas.
EDIT: Asking in a broader way: Where does the State stand on this re-negotiating to the apparent/potential detriment of Californians?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17041
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpf18 wrote:
mac wrote:
lets see how it plays out.
Has it ever come up to raise a fee on property owners to help mitigate traffic impacts, i.e.help finance the ferry? This could be similar to the wildfire prevention fee in risk areas.
EDIT: Asking in a broader way: Where does the State stand on this re-negotiating to the apparent/potential detriment of Californians?


I'm still digging, working with SFBA. We have until the meeting on the 25th to stake out a position, and we want to make sure we have done our homework.
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tomg



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It makes total sense for the new homeowners to pay for transit serving their area and I suspect that it is already there and buried in a benefit assessment district or sim. for the new homes (standard practice statewide). The problem is that it won't be enough so the transportation agency staff started looking for additional revenue to pay for a cheap ferry ride.

But here's a question to ask the Board of Supervisors: if it is ok to impose this new toll on SF's newest neighborhood in the name of congestion management, then why not do it at virtually every major offramp from 101? It IS technically feasible to put transponders up at the Embarcadero, 5th Street, 9th street, etc etc. offramps. At 2.5 to 5 bucks a car, think of the bucks that would roll in!
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radross



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bay Conservation Development Commission meeting today at 1:00 p.m. Public comment available. Info below.

Update, as best I can tell since much seems to be happening behind closed doors. BCDC wrote a letter 11/15/21 to TIMMA (the folks who want to charge us $5.00 to get on the island in the afternoon, and $5.00 to get off the island before 7:00 p.m., to fund the ferry for new residents which is of no use to windsurfers, wingers, etc.) According to the BCDC letter, the permit BCDC issued for the development failed to disclose TIMMA would charge a fee for Bay access. Despite the tolls being a material change to the development, TIMMA is apparently blowing off the letter claiming, like a bad shell game, the permit was to a different agency of the City and County of San Francisco. Bottom line: ask BCDC to require TIMMA to apply for an amendment to the permit so there can be a public hearing to establish the toll interferes with past, current and future Bay access.


1:00 p.m.
(415) 352-3600

If you have issues joining the meeting using the link, please enter the Meeting ID and Password listed below into the ZOOM app to join the meeting.

Join the meeting via Zoom

See information on public participation

Teleconference numbers

1 (866) 590-5055
Conference Code 374334

Meeting ID
894 6229 7214

Passcode
742113

Below is the zoom link:

https://bcdc-ca-gov.zoom.us/j/89462297214?pwd=UWNlUG84QURFYWVGRUxsMGg5eUF3UT09#success
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tajella



Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Ross,

I dialed in but could not stay on for the entire meeting. Would you recommend that I send an email to BCDC with a request for an amendment to the permit?

Thanks!

Bob


radross wrote:
Bay Conservation Development Commission meeting today at 1:00 p.m. Public comment available. Info below.

Update, as best I can tell since much seems to be happening behind closed doors. BCDC wrote a letter 11/15/21 to TIMMA (the folks who want to charge us $5.00 to get on the island in the afternoon, and $5.00 to get off the island before 7:00 p.m., to fund the ferry for new residents which is of no use to windsurfers, wingers, etc.) According to the BCDC letter, the permit BCDC issued for the development failed to disclose TIMMA would charge a fee for Bay access. Despite the tolls being a material change to the development, TIMMA is apparently blowing off the letter claiming, like a bad shell game, the permit was to a different agency of the City and County of San Francisco. Bottom line: ask BCDC to require TIMMA to apply for an amendment to the permit so there can be a public hearing to establish the toll interferes with past, current and future Bay access.


1:00 p.m.
(415) 352-3600

If you have issues joining the meeting using the link, please enter the Meeting ID and Password listed below into the ZOOM app to join the meeting.

Join the meeting via Zoom

See information on public participation

Teleconference numbers

1 (866) 590-5055
Conference Code 374334

Meeting ID
894 6229 7214

Passcode
742113

Below is the zoom link:

https://bcdc-ca-gov.zoom.us/j/89462297214?pwd=UWNlUG84QURFYWVGRUxsMGg5eUF3UT09#success
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17041
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure!
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radross



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob- Absolutely, you and anyone else concerned about access to the Bay for water recreation not only at TI but also any other launch should ask for the BCDC to require SFCTA/TIMMA to file an application for an amended permit to consider whether the ingress toll and egress toll is a material impact . The permit # is BCDC permit # 2016.005.000.

Here are some email address:

Pan, Katharine@BCDC.ca.gov - she is the staff handling the response by SFTCA;

Goldzband, Larry@BCDC.ca.gov - he is the executive director of the BCDC;

'Lavine, Ethan@BCDC.ca.gov - he authored the 11/15/21 letter and is the "Shoreline Development Program Manager."

publiccomment@bcdc.ca.gov - this is for submitting a public comment at a meeting.

Aaron.Peskin@sfgov.org - a BCDC commissioner, SF BoS member and ally of windsurfers

For good measure maybe also include the TIMMA committee members:

haneystaff@sfgov.org; MandelmanStaff@sfgov.org; Hillary.Ronen@sfgov.org
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radross



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ need to include both last name and first name in the email address to the BCDC staff. Thanks,
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