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Crissy ROW
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8708
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:22 am    Post subject: Crissy ROW Reply with quote

Just a friendly reminder on the rules of the road while on the water. A craft traveling on a beam reach /starboard tack has the ROW on the water, as well as a Leeward craft vs. a Windward craft. This is still the case even with the proliferation of the FOIL. Two prime examples of this happen in the bay, especially at Crissy/North Tower. The first is the Wing Foiler blasting straight down wind with little regard to on coming crafts on a beam reach, or any reach for that matter. The second is the wing foiler pinching upwind on a Port tack driving right into the path of the Beam reach craft upwind of them .
I doubt any wingers will read this , but these breaches happen every day out in the bay.
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rigatoni



Joined: 25 Feb 1999
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with the caveat that we are not racing and mostly just out having fun on the bay. If somebody is clearly struggling to get upwind more than I am, I generally yield. If someone is riding swell, tanker wake, or ferry wake, I also yield regardless on whether I have right of way. I'd also suggest in general to just give people a lot of room. The Bay is huge.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8708
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% .. Saturday , we were heading out to the bridge, and a couple of wingers were pinching hard right into us, the only way I avoiding a collision was to drop into the water since I have zero tacking skills... And I agree on the tanker swell , I'm referring to the aggressive downwind moves wingers make in swell . Windsurfers are still forced to ride the swell powered, while wings can just ride the rollers downwind , forever. Almost got clipped again!
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1273

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Crissy ROW Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Just a friendly reminder on the rules of the road while on the water. A craft traveling on a beam reach /starboard tack has the ROW on the water, as well as a Leeward craft vs. a Windward craft. This is still the case even with the proliferation of the FOIL. Two prime examples of this happen in the bay, especially at Crissy/North Tower. The first is the Wing Foiler blasting straight down wind with little regard to on coming crafts on a beam reach, or any reach for that matter. The second is the wing foiler pinching upwind on a Port tack driving right into the path of the Beam reach craft upwind of them .
I doubt any wingers will read this , but these breaches happen every day out in the bay.


Fortunately the wings are very slow, but the numbers seem to compound the problem. I had a very friendly conversation with a winger last week who was complaining about people not giving him way. He seemed to think that being on a foil gave him special right and it turned out that he was simply not aware of right way rules ... it took a little bit to explain. Not so sure it will help.

And the problem of wings not giving right of way seems to be compounded by: (1) lack of pilot skill, (2) ex-kiters who have little idea of right of way rules anyway, (3) ex-surfers, who have even less or no idea, and finally (4) just the usual bunch who does not care ...

Category (4) happily goes across vessel type. I have been running in at least one windsurfer in the last month who does not seem to have any problem to keep going on his port side and forcing others to avoid him.

And without climbing on a pulpit ... right of ways are right of ways. You do not obey them just in racing situations. A collision at 25 kntos (windsurfer) + 15 (winger) is going to hurt a real lot.

I personally try to avoid any type of foil, but I start very early to do so. If you wait and then start to give way, when you have right of way, it is very likely to start a lovely mutual zig-zag that ends with a collision ...


Last edited by dvCali on Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:44 pm; edited 3 times in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16662
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to sail Crissy—or paddleboard—you need to know the rules of safety. You must yield to vessels in the navigational channel, you need to yield to sailors on starboard, and you need to yield to downwind sailors on the same tack. You have to work at it to avoid knowing these things. You can be fined—or killed—for violating the right of way of a vessel in a navigational channel. Not remotely just for racers.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20319

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I was pinching hard on starboard on a WSer, some kiter came up below me on the same tack and told me to get out of "his" way. We were the only craft in sight, so I politely told him that I was pinching as high as I could and "suggested" that he needs to bear off a bit. He refused, so I just held my line and let him solve the problem. Anybody who thinks ANY rule gives him the right to broadside someone is an idiot, is completely ignorant, is dreaming, or all three.

Additionally, the ROW guidelines are sometimes clearly self-contradictory, which supports the argument that NO one has Right Of Way, that instead one craft must defer to the other. IOW, it's all about identifying the with the greater obligation to yield.
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rigatoni



Joined: 25 Feb 1999
Posts: 488

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't had any close calls or arguments about right of way in years. I remember some crusty old dude yelling at me at the Event Site on my first trip to the Gorge 20 years ago. He went on and on about leeward overtaking vessel. A bunch of locals came to my defense and laughed this clown off the beach.

FWIW-I am learning to wing and doing my best to avoid others while on the water. I don't have the same type of control of that thing like I do with my windsurfing gear. Also no window in the wing so visibility is not ideal. I'd recommend give people a little more room than usual.
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airwave



Joined: 29 Jun 2000
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's keep in mind that ROW (Right of Way) means that you must maintain your course. I does not mean that you may go in any other direction. The ROW sailor is burdened with NOT changing course with the caveat that if you are in immediate danger of a collision you may do whatever seems required.
The other sailor must take action to avoid the ROW by choosing to go up or downwind or stopping as necessary.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20319

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airwave wrote:
The other sailor must take action to avoid the ROW by choosing to go up or downwind or stopping as necessary.

If you're gonna luff into a stall or jump in the water just because some clown CHOOSES to pinch up under you on an otherwise empty river, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. Smile
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gerritt



Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 619
Location: Redwood City, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airwave wrote:
Let's keep in mind that ROW (Right of Way) means that you must maintain your course. I does not mean that you may go in any other direction. The ROW sailor is burdened with NOT changing course with the caveat that if you are in immediate danger of a collision you may do whatever seems required.
The other sailor must take action to avoid the ROW by choosing to go up or downwind or stopping as necessary.


This seems to be the part that many get confused about: Hold your line on starboard.

As for leeward ROW: Understand you may not be visible to the upwind sailor/winger. Kiters not so much - they have unobstructed view.

Pushing a right just because you are in "the right" can be detrimental. Use common sense and react early and definitively to let the other craft know your intentions, which are hopefully within the bounds of the ROW rules.

Finally, from surfing: Do everything you can to avoid messing up the rider's line. If you see someone swell riding (all 3 wind sports are capable of riding swell), stay out of their way and let them ride that baby down wind/down the line.
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