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Keeping center fin on in downwind
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:25 pm    Post subject: Keeping center fin on in downwind Reply with quote

Hi
I have a removable (not retractable) centerfin on my new Bic Tahe 160 l WF board. For the moment I am only doing light wind subplaning , no foiling.
To avoid the hassle of having to remove it ( or put it on) each time, depending on the conditions, I'd rather keep it on at all times. I know it helps going upwind, but does it seriously, I mean seriously, affect downwind if I keep it on? I am ready to some compromise, as long as it does not create excessive drag, fin spinning or otherwise make control difficult in a downwind course ..
One advantage of keeping it on is that it stabilizes the board, especially when uphauling. The board is rather wobbly, compared to the previous 220 l 12 ft Bic board I had. This one is so much harder on my sense of the balance, that I have now to relearn gybing , because the previous board was very forgiving and I got ..spoiled..

Thanks for the feedback

Ittiandro
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5193
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep it on until you are planing, which takes about 11 mph boardspeed.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 988
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaving it on will not seriously effect downwind performance in light wind. The time to remove it would be after you can comfortably sail upwind, across the wind, and downwind with it installed and when you start sailing in stronger wind or with larger sails and want to get into planing/footstrap sailing (assuming thatís what you want to do with windsurfing). The center fin will limit your ability to move back on the board or get onto a full plane. At that point it will be apparent that you should remove it. For non-planing sailing, leave it in all the time.

sm
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks you all for your advice.

Ittiandro
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1675

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what you describe, leave it on. Itís stable, youíre used to it, and it really makes no difference.

Once you learn to plane, which requires a little more speed and a decent wind, if you leave it in, the board will become extremely unstable. A wild horse pitching and darting every which way, up and down, across and back. A bad feeling. This is a good sign. At that point, try taking the centerboard off for a bit. The board will run totally smooth. You may wipeout, but you will smile and taste the real deal.

Before the ďdecent wind and centerboard offĒ, try taking it out in your light winds with the centerboard off. See if you can keep it upwind? If you can, you are ready to work on footstraps. Footstraps give you so much control and keep you upwind.

Donít become afraid to try a higher wind to feel a quick bolt of planing, itís the only way to progress. Just commit to wiping out. Foot straps, footstraps and footstraps and no centerboard once the horse is bucking.
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As soon as you are used to uphauling the board and am comfortable schlogging around in displacement mode, I'd take it off and learn to sail it without the center fin. Its simply a learning tool to get you past the pure beginner stage. You should be able to go upwind nonplaning without it. When you are learning to plane, you need to be able to go upwind without that fin, after you are good at planing, you need to be able to go upwind when the wind drops.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4069

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The material I read on your board says the dagger is retractable.

" Itís fitted with a retractable daggerboard to aid stability and increase upwind sailing".

What's the real story?

Daggers are good for non planing conditions, with one exception. If you run down wind with moderate speed (not planing), steering and control is difficult. The faster you go, the crazier it gets. That's where "retractable" is Key. Kick it up on the downwind and leave it down at other times (not planing).
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same shape different models, 1 has daggerboard, another has a-base fin slot. I had the fin slot model when it was the Bic Nova 165. Its a wide high volume short board, and it does not cruise upwind like a longboard with the dagger down, the performance in non-planing mode is not very good fin in or out. Learn to sail it without the center fin as soon as you can. You cannot even think about learning foot straps without planing first.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 290

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The material I read on your board says the dagger is retractable.

" Itís fitted with a retractable daggerboard to aid stability and increase upwind sailing".

What's the real story?

Daggers are good for non planing conditions, with one exception. If you run down wind with moderate speed (not planing), steering and control is difficult. The faster you go, the crazier it gets. That's where "retractable" is Key. Kick it up on the downwind and leave it down at other times (not planing).


Thanks

It is not retractable, but removable. It is mounted on a US finbox , like a regular fin. This is why I was considering keeping it on if it doesn't have major drawbacks. From what I read in the comments, I think I'll keep it on, at least for the time being, because I don't envisage high speed/high winds.

The removable centerboard feature makes this board a good compromise between daggerless shortboards and retractable daggerboard longboards, like the 12 ft Bic Windsup I currently have, an excellent workhorse for light winds subplaning , with unmatched stability, but a bit heavy and cumbersome to carry around.

Ittiandro
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10347

PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although you might not anticipate sailing in stronger planing conditions, I would recommend removing the dagger-type fin to allow yourself the opportunity to develop and improve your directional sailing skills in light winds. This is a very important skill to learn, especially at times when sailing about in planing conditions and the wind suddenly drops off when you're on your outside reach far from shore.
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