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If still undecided with 2020 election
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8587
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

0 for 2 Mr G. Describing Mr Trump's behavior as simply "boorish" would be like saying LeBron James still has a little game left at 36. Secondly, Mr. Biden is not looking the other way, he is doing something I appreciate, leaving his religion at the door.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can a person's opinion and perspective not change over time? Is that not the mark of maturity and growth? Is Biden's early opposition to Roe a legal distinction between the Constitution, state's rights and federalism as opposed to a religious and moral issue?

When he first entered national politics, Biden was willing to stand alongside politicians who wanted to make abortion illegal. In a Washingtonian profile published the year after the Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade decision established a nationwide right to abortion, Biden unequivocally criticized the ruling. “I don’t like the Supreme Court decision on abortion,” he said. “I think it went too far. I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body.”

He put that view into practice in 1982, voting in the Judiciary Committee for a proposed constitutional amendment that would have overturned Roe v. Wade by declaring that the Constitution offered women no inherent right to abortion, and that the federal government and states would be free to regulate or ban abortion as they pleased. Under that amendment, state laws that restricted abortions would have superseded more permissive federal laws.

But Biden moderated his anti-abortion stance over the years. “I was 29 years old when I came to the US Senate, and I have learned a lot,” he said in 2007. “Look, I’m a practicing Catholic, and it is the biggest dilemma for me in terms of comporting my religious and cultural views with my political responsibility.”


https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/joe-biden-abortion-roe-wade/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16257
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
When I was a young Catholic and evaluating my life and how religion would fit into it, it wasn't abortion that caused me the most concern. Not even close. It was how I could reconcile my desire for "wealth" and the teachings of Jesus.

Let's face it. It is much easier for a wealthy man to tell a woman what to do with her body than it is to give up that wealth to take care of less fortunate humans, including those unwanted children.

If we feel we can ask another Christian to justify his vote for a candidate who supports choice; isn't it fair game to ask how we justify our incredible wealth compared to the rest of humanity?


CB--I always struggled with abortion while I was still a practicing Catholic. I discharged my personal responsibility by making sure that I didn't get anyone pregnant before I got married. But I also understand that there is no national religion in this country--unlike in England--and we practice freedom of religion. Thus, we don't have the right to impose our own religious views on those that don't share them. Under that structure, an abortion of a non-viable is not the taking of a life. For those who have forgotten, that was a 7-2 decision supported by much of the Republican party. In 2019 polls, 61% of the public continued to believe that abortion should be legal in most circumstances.

The right has used the abortion issue to try to impose minority control of women. The idea that this will somehow end abortion is foolish at best. Abortion will remain legal in blue states and in most countries in the world. In states where it is banned, illegal abortions will continue and kill women. Wealthy women will be able to travel to get abortions. The right has not sought to search for common ground for practical ways to minimize abortions; instead they have seized on this issue to impose minority rule.

It does give some people a platform to virtue signal and judge others. Such people have written the First Amendment out of the Bill of Rights, and this provision of the bible out of use:

Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


Last edited by mac on Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justall wrote:
vientomas wrote:
Pass the popcorn please.


This made me laugh so hard!


Happy to provide a little joy in your day! I appreciate your candid and thoughtful comments here.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
What really worries me is when overzealous religious folks want everyone to adhere to their beliefs, and they actively strive to create laws to curb and restrict the freedom of others. Unfortunately, women have long suffered the greatest losses of freedom in their lives, and arguably a lot of it been deeply rooted in religious beliefs and legal restrictions. In today's world, I see no reason strip women of the rights that they have desperately fought for an eternity.

We have to remember throughout history that untold wars have been fought in the name of religion. The idea that religious folks are against killing just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I have to call BS on the current "sanctity of life" argument being promoted by religious zealots to target women.


I suspect many of the ardent death penalty advocates are also pro-lifers. If all life is sacred, why advocate killing people? Anyone?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20128

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't Biden's open support of taxpayer-funded abortion at ANY phase including infanticide (Google it) bother sincere Christians?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16257
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Shouldn't Biden's open support of taxpayer-funded abortion at ANY phase including infanticide (Google it) bother sincere Christians?


More horseshit. Dementia, or just lying?
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Shouldn't Biden's open support of taxpayer-funded abortion at ANY phase including infanticide (Google it) bother sincere Christians?


How 'bout you just provide a citation to support your claim like most reasonable people?
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For quite a few religious people, abortion appears to be an overriding reason for rejecting Democrats. That seems wrong to me. Doesn't Obamacare, as an example, arguably reduce suffering, even save lives; and if that were the case, wouldn't it have to be weighted against abortion? Or pollution; while the link between deaths and pollution is less direct, shouldn't it be taken into account? Or global warming?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8587
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve-O , your boy Scott Rasmussen has Biden +12..That's an over --sampled Republican pollster. My sense is that many rats are jumping ship and
nobody wants to be on board a losing ticket.
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