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rigitrite
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Location: Kansas City
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Ugly_Bird wrote: | | rigitrite wrote: | | I think I pay about $28 for a container of 500 pills, . |
What make/grade etc are you using? Thank you! |
I buy the HyVee store brand "Health Market": 400 pills, 1000mg each for $28.
HyVee is one of the grocery store chains common to our area of the mid-west.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| I stopped taking Vit B12 and Vit B complexes when I learned that the usual dose has a significant risk of severe side effects. The recommended dose, if we need ANY, is a couple of MICROgrams. Anything over about 20 micrograms is considered dangerous, yet most B1 and B complex supps contain thousands of micrograms. I can't recall what the threat was, but I trashed mine quickly and found some very low dose, plant-based version. The risk is exacerbated in combination with B6. Yo might want to read up on it and decide whether you're getting too much. |
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jpf18
Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 347
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Ligaments - Keeping it all together for windsurfing |
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| justall wrote: | | build the muscle around joints. |
My personal routine: Ride bicycle up a mountain regularly. A MTB mix of basic XC and technical trail riding. Big fun in its own right. When it comes to elbows and shoulders I am more concerned about tendonitis so I grab my TheraBand Flexbar daily. Works wonders, MTB riding and windsurfing (skiing over the winter) is enough to keep the weight in check though more could be done watching food and drink. |
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justall
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 442
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | That, or prevent the slipping. It threatens many painful and sometimes season-ending injuries, and is the end of that jibe. You know the answer to that: better traction, on our boards or our feet. |
Hmmm, I actually was on my old Berky boards the day I slipped and twisted my knee. That deck is definitely more slick than my other boards. I was letting my daughter use my much-less-slippery Goya. I like that … I can almost get away with displacement … blaming it on selflessness, rather than age/technique/fitness.
| dvCali wrote: | | Just be aware that all the claims that you can read on the web-of-a-million -lies about vitamines, diets and type of exercise are based on ... the extent of promotion behind them. |
Appreciate the heads-up, dvCali. Believe me, I am always looking for the weaknesses in the data … and sniffing out the con.
| boardsurfr wrote: | | simply repeating the study with a larger group would have dropped the P-value for G&C to below 0.05, and come to the exact opposite conclusion |
Ah, P-values brought into the discussion. Nice. Statistician? Engineer? Investment professional?
| swchandler wrote: | | My younger brother recommended taking a multi-vitamin a day, and upon doing that regularly, my susceptibility to colds totally vanishe |
I have always felt that my susceptibility to colds is better when I have been eating healthy, well-balanced. So, I would align with that generally.
| jpf18 wrote: | | My personal routine: Ride bicycle up a mountain regularly … Big fun in its own right. |
Thanks. Yes, this is key … aligning your exercise with something you enjoy doing. For me, ice hockey … clears my mind as I think of absolutely nothing else while playing … and a workout beyond belief. Will keep the MTB though in mind, as I could imagine that being a pretty good, and fun, workout … sure would be easier than finding a 200x85 ft slab of ice |
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jpf18
Joined: 13 Aug 2000
Posts: 347
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | I stopped taking |
Oh on that topic - a general word (not aimed at anyone specific) on all the pills and ointments they're selling. Unless you have a specific condition that's confirmed by a professional (and not just talked up on TV), they offer little at best. And that little assumes you're working out at a level that proper nutrition (fresh food, avoid alcohol etc.) couldn't cover. By and large, supplements etc. just wash out of the body and drain your wallet. Invest in food instead. If you're fortunate, you have a proper farmers market nearby, that's a destination, not the supplements section at Walmart. |
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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| boardsurfr wrote: |
While I share your general sentiment that there is more marketing success than true benefit, I think you are overstating your case. Sometimes, it helps to look at the original research articles to get a better idea.
For example, one study on glucosamine and chondroitin saw the following improvements:
Placebo: 60.1%
Glucosamine and chondroitin: 66.7% (P=0.09)
Celecoxib: 70% (P=0.008)
This particular study was clearly limited by (a) a strong placebo effect, and (b) the limited size. The net effect of Celecoxib was about 50% larger than that of glucosamine and chondroitin, but the P-value was more than 10-fold lower; this is a result of the study size. The conclusion of "no effect" is based on the standard P cutoff of 0.05. In all likelihood, simply repeating the study with a larger group would have dropped the P-value for G&C to below 0.05, and come to the exact opposite conclusion. Similarly, extending the study to cover a longer time frame could have resulted in a lower placebo effect, which would have made the G&C effect statistically significant.
For basically all vitamins, there is no doubt that not getting enough has negative health consequences. For many vitamins, most people have adequate levels, but that is very different for vitamin D. A large percentage of the population can be vitamin D deficient, especially in winter. The link between low vitamin D levels and a higher rate of respiratory infections and overall mortality is clearly established. A meta-analysis of clinical trials showed that vitamin D supplementation can reduce the risk of respiratory infection my more than 3-fold for those who have very low vitamin D levels (< 25 nmol/l; OR = 0.3). That's rather relevant right now for any windsurfers who stop windsurfing as it gets colder. |
Just for the record, I was the lead statistician in a number of clinical trials on vitamin D. And indeed, as I mentioned, vitamin D is a supplement that might show some benefits in specific populations. Elderly (> 70) with vitamin D deficiency seem to be the best candidates, the jury is still out, but "younger" people who exercise regularly have really no need of a D supplement ...
Besides D, the reality is that when you look at aggregate results published by scientists in scientific journals the picture is very clear: vitamins in general are no better than placebo, and they can do worse. By aggregate I mean that in a field dominated by small enrollment numbers you cannot look at individual studies, you can always find one that shows some benefit, somehow achieving the magical p-value only to be refuted by the next study.
Unfortunately the amount of misinformation fed by the vitamin industry and a collection of ever present know-it-all-colorful-clowns (hum ... why does Trump comes to mind?) drowns out what has been the scientific agreement for at least a decade. See for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3309636/ |
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