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Opinions on racey foils?
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1280
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:25 pm    Post subject: Opinions on racey foils? Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I use a slingshot Infinity 76 foil, I love it, and it's all I windsurf with 95% of the time here in my light wind part of Florida.

I'm looking kind of enviously at videos of racier foiling setups, though. My cruising speed is like 10-12 knots and it's a strain to get a peak GPS speed over 15 knots. It looks like the racier foil setups can do >20 knots no problem, which seems awesome. I'm also using a formula board as my foil-attachment platform, and it seems like that might pair well with one of these racy kind of foils.

Are any of y'all using a racy foil, and do you like it? How fast are they, really? And can you use them with smallish sails in lightish winds like we do with the freeride foils, or do you have to always go with a big cambered sail?

Thanks,
James

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16353
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a former racer now riding an F4 foil. It can cruise upwind at 17-20 mph with a great angle. I'm not as adept as those still racing, so my speeds are not as great as the boys in the Bay area racing fleet, especially downwind. I weigh 210 pounds. I sail a 6.2 Duotone up to about 23 mph of wind without too much struggle, a 7.0 from about 16-20 mph, and a 7.7 up to about 18. I'm faster with the bigger sails because it is easier to not touch the waves when they are smaller, and I'm braver when I'm not out of control. A couple of recommendations:

The newer F4's are certainly competitive, Chris Radkowski and Al Mirel are consistently at or near the top of Bay area races. Mike Zaijecks foils are perhaps a tiny bit faster but harder to control--and falling is slow.

Longer fuselages and stiff masts really matter. When I went to a 100 cm fuselage from an 80 things got much easier, and I am getting a 120 cm fuselage. Pitch control and stability are both much better.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 934

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had an I76, then bought a Team Set which I almost immediately sold.
I just didn't like straight line blasting and it really wasn't that much faster. Most of my foiling is playing in windswell, the race foils need constant power.
There are ones which somewhat blend the two like the Alpine ULW 1200 or some of the Taaroe foils.


Last edited by grantmac017 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3074

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race foils are fast but you are not going to use them with smallish sails in light winds. They require bigish sails in light winds.

Try getting a faster freeride foil. I have the 2018 Naish Thrust which is similar to your Infinity 76 foil & the top speed seemed to be around 18 mph. I picked up the Naish 2020 Jet foil this year and it hits low 20's easily in 8-12 knot winds.

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5053
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

160 lbs.
85 days on 1220 Naish.
Just switched to 600 Kitewing.
Basically same early foiling, maybe 18 mph cruising compared to 15 mph cruising for 1220.
Still need a gust of 14 mph breeze to plane the board, and new 600 needs 3 more pumps to build a bit more boat speed before popping up.
5.0 for 8-15 mph breeze for both foils.
Will try cambered sails someday, maybe.
Angles about the same, 67 cm stock WS fuze and 70cm mast.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1252

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not even decent with my Moses 790, and it is way too early for me to think about speed, but I look over in awe at Chris Radkowski (and I think Al Mirel) in my frequent days at Coyote.

Their standard set up when I am out B&J with a 4.7/5.4 seems to be a 7.0 with a Starboard 177, and of course the latest F4. They simply cruise over anything Coyote spits at you. Massive upwind angle, seemingly rock solid in all directions. I don't know about speed, and I am not sure if they can keep up with the top speed a slalom board on a broad reach (of course they smoke it upwind), but they are certainly well around 25 knots.
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willysp



Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a formula board and a infinity 84 and I am consistently getting 19 mph as max speed and that is it. I am thinking about buying a race foil to get more top speed and glide through lulls in light wind (I sail in lake washington, seattle).
There are two foilers in the area with race foils (starboard) and formula boards. I think they are cruising at 18-20/22 mph all the time. in light wind they pass me very quickly and they can point definitely higher than me.
sometimes they post pictures of their locosys watch and they show 27 mph top speed with 25 mph in 500m runs. that is plenty of speed for me.
They use the formula board and race foil with big foil sails down to wave sails (4m sails).
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1390

PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race foils require more board speed before they fly. More wind, larger sail or pump like hell. Front to back control stability is not as good as a freeride foil.
In foiling, control equals speed. That 76 wing offers early take off, excellent control and a good top speed. I used it for 2 really good years of foiling. I went to a smaller faster foil and it works pretty good for me. It is faster but not as forgiving. That said I think I had more fun on the 76 wing. And although the smaller foil is faster top end, I bet that my distance traveled for an hour on the water is higher on the 76 wing. On that wing I take off sooner with a smaller sail, I could fly better in lulls and made better turns. This is my take on a small gusty lake not a large ocean bay or a race course. A few days ago we had solid 20 plus average winds on the lake. I have a fast free ride W/S board and a sail. Been windsurfing since 1981 and I know how to make my gear work. I raced around with Mike and excellent foiler. He was on the 76 wing and a 4.2 sail and 30 lbs. heavier than me. The only time I could gain any ground on him was off the wind and not by much. Any up wind ride and he pulled away. If I hit the slightest lull he was gone. Stall a turn in a wind shadow on the far side and I was toast. He made that 76 wing look pretty fast
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5053
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say racefoils only replace Formula gear, but with 2-4 meter smaller sails. And needs 30cm deeper water with no obstructions.
No faster, about the same upwind and downwind, and about 2-4mph slower than freeride windsurf gear across the wind.
I rig next to 3/4 of the Cal Cup crew.
The reason I foil, one in 3 windsurf days, is for sub 15 mph winds, and my aging body.
This season, I have foiled around 15 days, and windsurfed around 55 days with sails smaller than 5.5 and sub 100 liter boards.
I ride 1220 and 600 foils.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 934

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
I say racefoils only replace Formula gear, but with 2-4 meter smaller sails. And needs 30cm deeper water with no obstructions.
No faster, about the same upwind and downwind, and about 2-4mph slower than freeride windsurf gear across the wind.
I rig next to 3/4 of the Cal Cup crew.
The reason I foil, one in 3 windsurf days, is for sub 15 mph winds, and my aging body.
This season, I have foiled around 15 days, and windsurfed around 55 days with sails smaller than 5.5 and sub 100 liter boards.
I ride 1220 and 600 foils.


That's laughably untrue. You need to spend time around better foilers in lighter wind.
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