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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164
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 Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | To those that want to continue to blame blacks for disparities in income, education, home ownership etc. I invite you to read a whole series of papers published by the NCBI regarding childhood growth, development and delinquency. Simply stating that the fault is with "fatherless families" is such a cop out.
This is a complex issue. I'm not going to reference every source here because they are widely ignored anyway. But, you will find:
1. Single parent households have a higher incidence of adolescent delinquency. YET, the delinquency rates of black children do not increase as much as white kids when examining the influence of single parent families. The authors suggested this is, likely, due to the deficiencies already common in the black community.
2. Socio economic factors have more of an influence on behaviors of ALL children than the number of parents at home.
3. Better childhood education and healthcare have definite positive results on the behavior of children and reduce delinquency.
4. Having a "man" in the house does not, necessarily, decrease the likelihood of delinquency when other factors are considered.
All of the posters on the right on this forum have responded with the same tired argument to blame black fathers for all that ails the black communities. This is a convenient excuse. This is a complicated issue that defies such simplistic answers and tired chants.
Matty. You seem incapable of reading what I've posted. I called out one of your statements as misleading. You conclude that I am a moron. This is why we have so much trouble getting to the bottom of any issue.
Techno. You published a misleading rant by an unknown author to discredit a study that has a lot more depth to it than the rant would indicate. Why don't you read the full CDC report? Why don't you goggle actual studies by actual educational and scientific institutions? There are SO many sources out there available that you don't need someone to interpret them for you. |
Google all you want and try and find a study that says that a single parent household is equal to or better than a dual parent household. My point is clear and simple. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Techno. I have NEVER claimed that a two parent household is not better for children. Good grief. Read my post that you reiterated. I wrote that the research does show that two parent households DO have a lower incidence of adolescent misbehavior.
BUT. Two parent households, apparently, do not make up for other socio economic factors that disadvantage black families. And, the numbers used to diminish this argument, by the right, are fraught with inaccuracies and misrepresentations.
But, you, apparently, refuse to hear this and would rather argue over something I never claimed. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5181
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| The correlation between single parent homes and poverty is clear. The correlation between poverty and higher crime rates is clear. This is true for all racial groups and global geographies. Two thirds of African American children grow up in a single parent home. The absence of a stable family unit goes to the very core of who those children grow up to be and how they behave/ perform. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | The correlation between single parent homes and poverty is clear. The correlation between poverty and higher crime rates is clear. This is true for all racial groups and global geographies. Two thirds of African American children grow up in a single parent home. The absence of a stable family unit goes to the very core of who those children grow up to be and how they behave/ perform. |
Well said - The issue is clear and simple, for both black and white - the fix? |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9122
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| These are the symptoms, not the cause. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | mrgybe wrote: | | The correlation between single parent homes and poverty is clear. The correlation between poverty and higher crime rates is clear. This is true for all racial groups and global geographies. Two thirds of African American children grow up in a single parent home. The absence of a stable family unit goes to the very core of who those children grow up to be and how they behave/ perform. |
Well said - The issue is clear and simple, for both black and white - the fix? |
Clear and simple? OK. Explain what has caused a much higher rate of poverty among blacks... |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| coboardhead wrote: | | techno900 wrote: | | mrgybe wrote: | | The correlation between single parent homes and poverty is clear. The correlation between poverty and higher crime rates is clear. This is true for all racial groups and global geographies. Two thirds of African American children grow up in a single parent home. The absence of a stable family unit goes to the very core of who those children grow up to be and how they behave/ perform. |
Well said - The issue is clear and simple, for both black and white - the fix? |
Clear and simple? OK. Explain what has caused a much higher rate of poverty among blacks... |
Self perpetuating. A single mom in poverty raising too many kids by who knows how may fathers leads to a less than ideal environment with little chance of breaking the cycle and future success. Little difference from whites in the same circumstance, but racism does have a greater impact on the blacks. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17751
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | | The correlation between single parent homes and poverty is clear. The correlation between poverty and higher crime rates is clear. This is true for all racial groups and global geographies. Two thirds of African American children grow up in a single parent home. The absence of a stable family unit goes to the very core of who those children grow up to be and how they behave/ perform. |
Occasionally correct. What is missing from this picture is substance abuse, and intergenerational poverty. I've now spent 14+ years in a classroom, more than half of my time with kids who are struggling. Children that are raised in a home where there is substance abuse or mental illness present exactly the same. Black or white. There is no difference between alcohol and other drugs, and a child in a home where there is physical or mental violence presents exactly like a child from a home with substance abuse. The common factor is chaos in the home. These are, in my opinion, even stronger issues than poverty. Some of my best students were African-American kids from a household with no father but a strong mom.
Treating mental illness and substance abuse is the first arena to improve the lot of children.
By the way, something that conservatives usually deny, the Great Society of Lyndon Johnson dramatically reduced poverty.
| Quote: | One of Johnson's aides, Joseph A. Califano, Jr., has countered that "from 1963 when Lyndon Johnson took office until 1970 as the impact of his Great Society programs were felt, the portion of Americans living below the poverty line dropped from 22.2 percent to 12.6 percent, the most dramatic decline over such a brief period in this century."
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Elements of those programs remain alive, despite the efforts of many in the GOP to dismantle them--and rationalize selfishness.
Last edited by mac on Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5181
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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CB, This may provide some insight for you. There are a multitude of other sources.
Most single-mother families have limited financial resources available to cover children’s education, child care, and health care costs. Seven in 10 children living with a single mother are poor or low income, compared to less than a third (32 percent) of children living in other types of families. While part of the problem is fewer potential earners in female-headed families, many of
these families are also at a disadvantage because of problems collecting child support payments from absent fathers. In 2007, only 31 percent of female-headed families with children reported receiving child support payments during the previous year. It is especially difficult for young, never-married mothers to collect child support because many of the fathers in this situation have very low wages.......Single mothers with young children tend to have less education and work experience, resulting in lower wages among those women.
US Children in Single Parent Families. Mark Mather PhD |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgybe wrote: | CB, This may provide some insight for you. There are a multitude of other sources.
Most single-mother families have limited financial resources available to cover children’s education, child care, and health care costs. Seven in 10 children living with a single mother are poor or low income, compared to less than a third (32 percent) of children living in other types of families. While part of the problem is fewer potential earners in female-headed families, many of
these families are also at a disadvantage because of problems collecting child support payments from absent fathers. In 2007, only 31 percent of female-headed families with children reported receiving child support payments during the previous year. It is especially difficult for young, never-married mothers to collect child support because many of the fathers in this situation have very low wages.......Single mothers with young children tend to have less education and work experience, resulting in lower wages among those women.
US Children in Single Parent Families. Mark Mather PhD |
All of this is no surprise. What is unclear is how systemic racism is built into our society that puts black families at a higher risk for these issues. You haven't suggested this but others here have...That the cause of black poverty is due, solely, to the irresponsible fathers. My suggestion is that the black community has not been provided the same means for pulling out of poverty available to whites. This sets up the fathers to be blamed for a situation that is only, partly, because of their actions.
This is the crux with attempting to repair generations of systemic racism. To start, I think we need to admit that it happened and still happens in parts of the country. We also need to admit that trying to just throw feel good money at it didn't work before and, probably, won't work again.
I do believe that we need to really educate and empower women; especially black women. This needs to be a cultural shift. And, I do not disagree with those, like Karen Hunter, that apply a fair share of the responsibility to the black community.
The devil is in the details. But, we do know that parental educational programs are effective. I would advocate for advancing these programs and even compensating attendees for their time (both fathers and mothers). I would also suggest targeting communities of poverty with votech training in areas with high demand. Some of this is happening. But, the programs need to be evaluated, adjusted and expanded if they are showing promise.
What I believe doesn't work is providing additional welfare dollars to women who continue to have more children. At some point, we need to recognize that this contributes to the problem and figure out ways to care for the children directly. |
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