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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1604
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Transition.
When displacement heads toward full foiling, BOTH the foil AND the planing hull is working.
Spent plenty of time fully planing while pumping, even rising up on foil for feets of distance, then dropping back down as pumping is lessened while looking towards front straps. The board still planing but I'm not in any straps.
That would happen mostly in 9 mph breeze with a 5.7 sized sail going into a lull.


that's why you gotta pump in the straps. i feel like i can foil way before I can plane... and remember I'm using a 4.0 99% of the time. SUP guys can paddle into foiling in flat water... I wonder what the boat speed is for that.

i did the wing thing today at Stick.... 5.0 Duotone Wing/Infinity 84/Fanatic Sky SUP 6'11" 142l feels like i need a solid 15 to get going (i'm not efficient as this was my first day). Robert was on 7.0... he could get going before me. I could have wind foiled on my normal 4.0 setup I think.

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Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4703
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To pump in the straps, you need enough wind to fill the sail on recovery stroke, which is around 8 mph for me with a 5.7. Less, pumping don't work because wind never fills the sail and the tail just sinks.
The reason I start my pumping at back slog position forward of the straps is because there is still a lack of 7+ breeze when I start to pump....going into 10+ breeze by my 3rd pump as I move to front, then rear straps.
At Berkeley, fewer than 9 foilers, I'm still the earliest foiler by far for the given breeze.
I am also the most vocal foiler doubting foiling and complaining about the lulls AND the gusts available each day.
Every single course race foiler starts to pump well forward of their straps. They pump to a minimal plane, get into front, then rear straps while continuing pumping and kick onto foil when forward speed achieves around 11-15 mph.
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1604
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the techniques for race foilers with big sails and small wings is different for freeride foiling with small sails and large wings.

you need to try my 125 which has much more volume aft and my 1500 of 2000 wing.

i learned on a smaller front wing and it was much more like windsurfing.... get the board to the point of planing then lift onto the front wing. the big wings are totally different.

would be interesting to get a whole bunch of people together on different gear and just see what are the different minimums and techniques.

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Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4703
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm based off a Naish 122; which is tin in the tail.
Naish added a bunch of volume on 2020's.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1130

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevinkan wrote:


would be interesting to get a whole bunch of people together on different gear and just see what are the different minimums and techniques.

I'll be the one with no technique but no wind minimum! (translation: I mostly slog or limp back Shocked)

Lee: volume does not seem to be a problem for some (205 pounds/5.8 sail/ 5-10 mph) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FdHnpp1Hos&feature=emb_logo...
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4703
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I've been overpowered, then wind dies, using slightly smaller sail than Kevin.
I suspect when he uses a 4.4, the wind is 10-18 mph....in which case I'd be on flatter 4.5.
You windsurf.
You know you cannot get into both straps without enough wind to pump onto a plane. That wind speed is around 12 for most foilers not on 8+ meters. Only a gust of around 12 is needed, as once up, you can glide thru 6 mph slightly broad and pumping.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4703
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That video is WAAY more than 5-10.
Just like those 2 year old vids of Naish on 4.7 is more than 12 mph.
You don't seem to know the difference between a Naish board and the much thicker tailed SS.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1130

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
...
You don't seem to know the difference between a Naish board and the much thicker tailed SS.

Just commenting on the fact that for that guy the Slingshot 125 is a sinker. Just to repeat: he is 205 pounds plus the rest. Look how under water his feet are at the beginning of the video.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4703
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, correct.
You windsurf.
Can anyone stand underwater IN the straps without counterbalance from a well powered sail?
5.8. Breeze must be over 10 mph as he steps on.
You windsurf.
Does anyone get into both straps BEFORE their board is planing?
Why would pumping be any easier from IN the straps?
We all learned to pump from out of straps and step into straps as we continue pumping.
Even pump 3-5 more after straps.
Not a tough process to go from slog to plane and even to foil and harness WHILE moving feet.
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1604
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually, at the lowest thresholds of foiling, the only way I can get on the foil is to be in both straps. being in the straps puts my feet in the best position to be foiling so I'm not unnecessarily keeping the board down, and also gives me additional leverage on the board both pushing/scooting the board forward and pulling the nose then tail up... kind of like pumping a surfboard on a wave.

I never get foiling without my front foot already in the strap.

for me, windsurf early planing technique and early foiling technique, while having some crossover, are very different. At first foiling really screwed up my early planing on finning boards.

EDIT: I'll add that being in both straps in light wind isn't super comfortable or easy. Even with a ton of volume in the back, the board is not balanced slogging like this
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