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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14923
Location: on earth
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | Well, maybe not.
| Quote: | | Law enforcement officials told CNN on Friday that, “barring new information that changes what they know,” charges will not be recommended against former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn over his telephone conversations with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. |
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ya thats why we need a independent council to investigate, trumps goons can not be allowed to investigate themselves with trump deciding. daaaa
lock him up
lock him up
_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17764
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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From the Economist:
| Quote: | GEORGE W. BUSH looked into Vladimir Putin’s eyes and thought he saw his soul. He was wrong. Barack Obama attempted to “reset” relations with Russia, but by the end of his term in office Russia had annexed Crimea, stirred up conflict elsewhere in Ukraine and filled the power vacuum that Mr Obama had left in Syria. Donald Trump appears to want to go much further and forge an entirely new strategic alignment with Russia. Can he succeed, or will he be the third American president in a row to be outfoxed by Mr Putin?
The details of Mr Trump’s realignment are still vague and changeable. That is partly because of disagreements in his inner circle. Even as his ambassador to the UN offered “clear and strong condemnation” of “Russia’s aggressive actions” in Ukraine, the president’s bromance with Mr Putin was still smouldering. When an interviewer on Fox News put it to Mr Trump this week that Mr Putin is “a killer”, he retorted: “There are a lot of killers. What, you think our country’s so innocent?”
For an American president to suggest that his own country is as murderous as Russia is unprecedented, wrong and a gift to Moscow’s propagandists. And for Mr Trump to think that Mr Putin has much to offer America is a miscalculation not just of Russian power and interests, but also of the value of what America might have to give up in return.
The art of the deal meets the tsar of the steal
Going by the chatter around Mr Trump (see Briefing), the script for Russia looks something like this: America would team up with Mr Putin to destroy “radical Islamic terror”—and in particular, Islamic State (IS). At the same time Russia might agree to abandon its collaboration with Iran, an old enemy for America in the Middle East and a threat to its allies, including Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. In Europe Russia would stop fomenting conflict in Ukraine, agree not to harass NATO members on its doorstep and, possibly, enter nuclear-arms-control talks. In the longer term, closer ties with Russia could also help curb Chinese expansion. Stephen Bannon, Mr Trump’s most alarming adviser, said last year that he had “no doubt” that “we’re going to war in the South China Sea in five to ten years.” If so, America will need allies, and Russia is a nuclear power with a 4,200km (2,600-mile) border with China. What’s not to like?
Pretty much everything. Russian hacking may have helped Mr Trump at the polls, but that does not mean he can trust Mr Putin. The Kremlin’s interests and America’s are worlds apart.
In Syria, for example, Mr Putin makes a big noise about fighting IS terrorists, but he has made no real effort to do so. His price for working with America could be to secure a permanent Russian military presence in the Middle East by propping up Bashar al-Assad, whose regime was revealed this week to have hanged thousands of Syrians after two- or three-minute trials. None of this is good for Syria, regional stability or America. Even if Mr Putin and Mr Trump shared a common goal (they don’t) and Americans did not mind becoming complicit in Russian atrocities (they should), American and Russian forces cannot easily fight side by side. Their systems do not work together. To make them do so would require sharing military secrets that the Pentagon spends a fortune protecting. Besides, Russian aircraft do not add much to the coalition air power already attacking IS. Ground troops would, but Mr Putin is highly unlikely to deploy them.
Likewise, Russia is not about to confront Iran. The country’s troops are a complement to Russian air power. Iran is a promising market for Russian exports. And, most of all, the two countries are neighbours who show every sign of working together to manage the Middle East, not of wanting to fight over it.
The notion that Russia would be a good ally against China is even less realistic. Russia is far weaker than China, with a declining economy and population and a smaller army. Mr Putin has neither the power nor the inclination to pick a quarrel with Beijing. On the contrary, he values trade with China, fears its military might and has much in common with its leaders, at least in his tendency to bully his neighbours and reject Western lecturing about democracy and human rights. Even if it were wise for America to escalate confrontation with China—which it is not—Mr Putin would be no help at all.
The gravest risk of Mr Trump miscalculating, however, is in Europe. Here Mr Putin’s wishlist falls into three classes: things he should not get until he behaves better, such as the lifting of Western sanctions; things he should not get in any circumstances, such as the recognition of his seizure of Ukrainian territory; and things that would undermine the rules-based global order, such as American connivance in weakening NATO.
Mr Putin would love it if Mr Trump gave him a freer hand in Russia’s “near abroad”, for example by scrapping America’s anti-missile defences in Europe and halting NATO enlargement with the membership of Montenegro, which is due this year. Mr Trump appears not to realise what gigantic concessions these would be. He gives mixed signals about the value of NATO, calling it “obsolete” last month but vowing to support it this week. Some of his advisers seem not to care if the EU falls apart; like Mr Putin, they embrace leaders such as Marine Le Pen who would like nothing more. Mr Bannon, while admitting that Russia is a kleptocracy, sees Mr Putin as part of a global revolt by nationalists and traditionalists against the liberal elite—and therefore a natural ally for Mr Trump.
Played for a sucker by a silovik
The quest for a grand bargain with Mr Putin is delusional. No matter how great a negotiator Mr Trump is, no good deal is to be had. Indeed, an overlooked risk is that Mr Trump, double-crossed and thin-skinned, will end up presiding over a dangerous and destabilising falling-out with Mr Putin.
Better than either a bargain or a falling-out would be to work at the small things to improve America’s relations with Russia. This might include arms control and stopping Russian and American forces accidentally coming to blows. Congressional Republicans and his more sensible advisers, such as his secretaries of state and defence, should strive to convince Mr Trump of this. The alternative would be very bad indeed.
This article appeared in the Leaders section of the print edition under the headline "Courting Russia" |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone here have any concrete evidence that anything illegal happened? No named sources? No arrests? No tapes?
Just hysterical. .
BTW, 11 European nations just announced they'll be increasing their military spending BECAUSE OF TRUMP. |
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J64TWB
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1685
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kind of like Benghazi Bard. Except the FBI probe and investigations are just starting. Should be fun. Pretty sure they can't top the record of 18 investigations against Benghazi that found nothing. Just sit tight. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17764
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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No sign that Malibu actually read the article. The analysis put forth suggests that the real issue, even if no crime was committed, was the appallingly bad judgement and self delusion of Trump and his fellow clowns to think that a simple reset with Russia will be his next big deal. Both Bush and Obama thought that and failed. Hubris.
With that said, it is pretty funny that you righties were all screeching about the leaks coming from the righties within the security establishment being evidence of crimes by Hillary. Nothing suggested that she handled anything really sensitive by e-mail, or used an insecure phone to contact foreign leaders and receive briefings at Mar Lago. Now that the drum beat from the security establishment is really loud, really universal, and some say that Trump will die in jail--well, what do they know.
I do kind of feel sorry for Rex Tillerson. He actually accomplished things in his alternative life, although like Puzder they involved hawking toxic materials to those who are addicted. But he actually took the ethics requirements seriously, divested himself--and will now find himself without a job when the house of cards comes crashing down. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20936
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Until collusion is proved, Russiagate is an invention of the leftwing media. THIRTY-FOUR FUGGING PAGES OF FEARMONGERING, DIVISIVE, CHILDISH SPECULATION ON IT IS ABOUT AS STUPID AND PARANOID AS IT GETS. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17764
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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The last line in this article says it all--“Partisanship,” as Dartmouth political scientist Brendan Nyhan puts it, “is a hell of a drug.”
| Quote: | On Monday afternoon, the Pew Research Center released its annual report on how Americans see foreign policy — which focused, appropriately, on Russia. Its findings are striking.
The report’s findings make a very compelling case that Donald Trump’s victory has, single-handedly, transformed the way Americans see Russia. Republicans are more friendly to Vladimir Putin’s regime, and Democrats more hostile, than at any point in Pew’s decade-plus of polling. It’s a testament to just how powerfully partisan politics shapes the way Americans see the world.
What Pew found
Between April 2016 and January 2017, the percent of Democrats in Pew’s sample who saw Russia as a “major threat” to the US nearly doubled. Among Republicans, the number fell by 5 percentage points:
This finding would be striking enough on its own. It shows that, before Trump officially won the Republican primary in June, Republicans were still more hostile to Russia than Democrats. But over the course of the election, that flipped.
This finding, in broad strokes, is corroborated by other pollsters. A July 2014 poll by YouGov found that Russian President Vladimir Putin had a -66 approval rating among Republicans; in November 2016, that number was -10 — a 55 percentage point increase, at a time when Putin’s government was slaughtering civilians and American-backed rebels in Syria.
But Pew has the benefit of more than a decade of polling on American views of Russia to compare with. When you look back, you find that — since Pew began polling on this in 2005 — Republicans have always seen Russia as a bigger threat than Democrats have. 2017 is the sole exception:
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http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/13/14256660/trump-russia-pew-report
Similar results reported here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/16/republicans-used-to-fear-russians-heres-what-they-think-now/?utm_term=.f71f67e053eb
Amazing, but this is what a Fox world looks like for people who don't--or can't--think critically. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bluefish1 wrote: | | Kind of like Benghazi Bard. Except the FBI probe and investigations are just starting. Should be fun. Pretty sure they can't top the record of 18 investigations against Benghazi that found nothing. Just sit tight. |
When there's 4 dead Americans and an innocent man thrown in jail as a cover up , let me know.
Benghazi found plenty and was a big factor in The Hilderbeast lost.
The Russian thing will produce nothing and the left will continue to look like the whiny, desperate fools they are. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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mat-ty, do you really believe the nonsense that you're spouting? Haven't you noticed that the whole Benghazi thing has just vanished? Moreover, the thought that Putin's Russia isn't a topic of serious concern is daft.
I don't know about you, but I very much want an independent investigation of how Russians have affected and influenced our elections. And, needless to say, Russia's role in the Middle East and with NATO aligned nations bears our sincere and focused interest. We can't just forget history.
You may not want it, but things are only starting to enfold for the Trump Administration. I wonder how the Republicans in Congress will play their cards as Donald Trump unwinds and freaks out over time. I think that the likelihood that they will look the other way and be hypocrites, is sky high. Can't piss Trump off too much. The whole Republican conquest of government depends on his support.
No doubt, we are in store for some real action. The power and freedom of a free press will be at the forefront, and Donald Trump will be continually be watched and schooled. Trump can't even begin to grasp or imagine a real America, and everything that we really stand for. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17764
Location: Berkeley, California
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