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Eagles and DDT
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16250
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:34 pm    Post subject: Eagles and DDT Reply with quote

In this morning's news:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The number of American bald eagles has quadrupled since 2009, with more than 300,000 birds soaring over the lower 48 states, government scientists said in a report Wednesday.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said bald eagles, the national symbol that once teetered on the brink of extinction, have flourished in recent years, growing to more than 71,400 nesting pairs and an estimated 316,700 individual birds.

Interior Secretary Deb Haaland, in her first public appearance since being sworn in last week, hailed the eagle’s recovery and noted that the majestic, white-headed bird has always been considered sacred to Native American tribes and the United States generally.


“The strong return of this treasured bird reminds us of our nation’s shared resilience and the importance of being responsible stewards of our lands and waters that bind us together,″ said Haaland, the first Native American Cabinet secretary.

Bald eagles reached an all-time low of 417 known nesting pairs in 1963 in the lower 48 states. But after decades of protection, including banning the pesticide DDT and placement of the eagle on the endangered species list in more than 40 states, the bald eagle population has continued to grow. The bald eagle was removed from the list of threatened or endangered species in 2007.
https://apnews.com/article/bald-eagle-population-soars-united-states-70982fdda4b8f12ce7736ea5df0b9122

Of course buggy whip denied that DDT and bioaccumulation had anything to do with the near extinction of bald eagles, and that banning DDT was done by latte sipping liberals and their stooge at EPA. Seldom in doubt, often wrong.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1258

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same can be said about Peregrine falcons. A marvel to watch hunt.
I had a front row seat for a nesting pair on a high-rise rooftop along the Hudson River.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Eagles and DDT Reply with quote

berkeley wrote:
Of course buggy whip denied that DDT and bioaccumulation had anything to do with the near extinction of bald eagles

A lie.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16250
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Eagles and DDT Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
berkeley wrote:
Of course buggy whip denied that DDT and bioaccumulation had anything to do with the near extinction of bald eagles

A lie.


Prove it buggy whip. You also accused environmental groups of opposing the use of DDT in mosquito nets--when most of those who took a position supported it. Your attack was essentially identical to that of Steven Milloy on Junk Science. Despite you apologists for weakening regulations and supporting pesticides use, and your smears of William Ruckleshaus, eagles have made a comeback.

The dogs you sleep with: https://junkscience.com/who-is-steve-milloy/

https://scholarsandrogues.com/2017/02/28/steve-milloy-a-liar-for-hire-and-immoral-hypocrite-was-part-of-donalds-epa-transition-team/
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He starts a new thread to tell a lie about me, then demands that I prove I didn't say the thing he invented! Could he get any more pathetic?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16250
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What mrgybe said about DDT and its banning:



Quote:
Welcome to the rewards from the US ban on DDT rammed through by the environmentalist lobby and their stooge at the EPA. Thirty years on we realize the "science" used to justify the ban was fatally flawed.........and I mean fatally.
would you prefer to sit around theorizing about the possible negative effects of DDT while millions are suffering and dying? I have never said that DDT will absolutely eliminate malaria........but used with nets and drugs it will, and has, made significant inroads. Does liberal compassion not extend to Africans and others in the 3rd world?


I guess “possible negative effects” doesn’t mean the near extinction of eagles and peregrine falcons.

Despite Steven Milloy and his buddies at Exxon, eagles have recovered,
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3911

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like a reasonable, but brief history of DDT use.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/is-ddt-still-being-used.html
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16250
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Seems like a reasonable, but brief history of DDT use.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/is-ddt-still-being-used.html


A reasonable comment and a reasonable, but very brief, summary. If you are interested in the controversy, and the three camps, this article handles it well:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3114806/

DDT was very widely used in the US, and other countries, for many years. It is of very high toxicity to insects (until they build up resistance) and very low toxicity to humans. But the problem in the environment was that DDT was absorbed, particularly in the marine environment, and then concentrated as it went up the food chain to high enough levels to cause serious reproductive problems. Bald eagles, peregrine falcons, and brown pelicans all became endangered because of these effects--described by buggy whip as "possible negative effects", and described the science as "fatally flawed." The impact on human health, and whether or not the benefits of the DDT for reduction of malaria were more significant than the human health risks remains an issue of some controversy. I think that is covered fairly in the ncbi article, which does note studies that have expressed concerns about the impacts on humans.

True to form, buggy whip attacked the motives of those who had concerns about the impacts of DDT. He also misrepresented the viewpoints of environmental groups about the targeted use of DDT in malaria areas for what is described as indoor residual spraying (IRS) in the cited article. This use was not contemplated when DDT was banned in the US, and by the UN. When UN officials proposed this use, some environmental groups supported it, and some opposed it. He also misrepresented the science behind DDT concerns, evident in his characterizing the drastic impacts on populations of fishing eating birds as "possible".

Ironically, the hiatus in use of DDT contributed to its effectiveness in IRS. While aggressive use of DDT wiped out malaria in the US, and came close in some other countries, small populations of mosquitoes developed resistance to DDT, and thus were less affected. This is a well known phenomenon in pesticide biochemistry, and is commonly noted about overuse of antibiotics.
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1/2 million barrels.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-coast-ddt-dumping-ground/
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5006

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally don't bother to read Berkeley's posts so I hadn't noticed this before......

Berkeley wrote:
He (the Sage) also misrepresented the viewpoints of environmental groups about the targeted use of DDT in malaria areas for what is described as indoor residual spraying (IRS) in the cited article. This use was not contemplated when DDT was banned in the US, and by the UN.

History of IRS
IRS with DDT was the primary malaria control method used during the Global Malaria Eradication Campaign (1955-1969). The campaign did not achieve its stated objective but it did eliminate malaria from several areas and sharply reduced the burden of malaria disease in others.
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/malaria_worldwide/reduction/irs.html

DDT was banned in the US in 1972. IRS has been used since the 1940s. Wikipedia has let him down again.
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