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Israel, Iran and obama
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17751
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I know the "above the fold guys" who have never proposed anything better will never click on the link, I'm compelled to post the first section, which demonstrates how much better this is than what happened during George Bush's watch:

Enrichment
Iran has agreed to reduce by approximately two-thirds its installed centrifuges. Iran will
go from having about 19,000 installed today to 6,104 installed under the deal, with only
5,060 of these enriching uranium for 10 years. All 6,104 centrifuges will be IR-1s, Iran’s
first-generation centrifuge.

• Iran has agreed to not enrich uranium over 3.67 percent for at least 15 years.
Iran has agreed to reduce its current stockpile of about 10,000 kg of low-enriched
uranium (LEU) to 300 kg of 3.67 percent LEU for 15 years.

• All excess centrifuges and enrichment infrastructure will be placed in IAEA monitored
storage and will be used only as replacements for operating centrifuges and equipment.
• Iran has agreed to not build any new facilities for the purpose of enriching uranium for 15
years.
• Iran’s breakout timeline – the time that it would take for Iran to acquire enough fissile
material for one weapon – is currently assessed to be 2 to 3 months. That timeline will be
extended to at least one year, for a duration of at least ten years, under this framework.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iran is so fu(king trust worthy, their history proves it, that I'm about to break out in a rash of unfounded happiness!!!!!!
I can see the mullahs sitting around their hookas right now laughing so hard that their underage concubines can't even get a rise out of them.


Good grief.


But hea, nothing is on paper, so nothing exists yet, even BHO said "IF".
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet even more bla bla bla, inspections????!!!! It's all just more muslim lies and deception without full unfettered INSPECTIONS.
And.... the deal gives them the bomb anyways, can we just start bombing, way, way overdue.
Can't believe you are defending them, this is a new low for liberalism.
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Outline of the agreement is here: ...

Thanks for the facts. Glad we give peace a reasonable chance. If a deal gets finalized, I think we will look back 10 years from now and recognize it as a major achievement that made the world a better place.

Is there any argument against the reasoning below (Nicholas Kristof, NYTimes, http://goo.gl/eAjRM9 )?

"The West essentially has three options:
■ We can try to obtain a deal to block all avenues to a bomb, uranium, plutonium and purchase of a weapon. This would allow Iran to remain on the nuclear path but would essentially freeze its progress — if it doesn’t cheat. [..]

■ We can continue the sanctions, cyberwarfare and sabotage to slow Iran’s progress. This has worked better than expected, but it’s not clear that we have a new Stuxnet worm to release. [..]

■ We can launch military strikes on Natanz, Isfahan, Arak, Fordow and, possibly, Tehran. This would be a major operation lasting weeks. Strikes would take place in the daytime to maximize the number of nuclear scientists killed. All this would probably delay a weapon by one to three years — but it could send oil prices soaring, lead to retaliatory strikes and provoke a nationalistic backlash in support of the government.

On balance, with either the military option or the sanctions option, Iran probably ends up with a nuclear capability within a decade. With a nuclear deal, it’s just possible that we could prevent that from happening."
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14892
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Yet even more bla bla bla, inspections????!!!! It's all just more muslim lies and deception without full unfettered INSPECTIONS.
And.... the deal gives them the bomb anyways, can we just start bombing, way, way overdue.
Can't believe you are defending them, this is a new low for liberalism.



ya like we would ever believe a right winger would tell the truth. ya still looking for those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,

that lie by the right wingers have only cost us about 3 trillion and more as the ME is exploding and our gas prices went up when we were lied to that gas would be cheap if we went to Iraq. what was the right wingers projected cost of the short war a few hundred million.

friggen right wingers shut your frigging lying mouths.... when your lips move we have another costly lie.

again the UN inspections in Iraq were correct. you right wingers were liars.

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17751
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The daily laugh, provided by the wing nuts. They will take solace from the equally whacky comments of Michele Bachman, comparing Obama to the German pilot who crashed the airplane in the Alps. Michele knows crazy.

As an alternative, I will give you the sage words of Obama before he became
Senator:

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, an undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than the best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars."

Yee hah is still not a sound foreign policy.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17751
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the fact free world:

NW says:

Quote:
Iran is so fu(king trust worthy, their history proves it, that I'm about to break out in a rash of unfounded happiness!!!!!!
I can see the mullahs sitting around their hookas right now laughing so hard that their underage concubines can't even get a rise out of them.


Now there is some insight. To go with Beagle buddy's insane claims that there are no inspections and Iran already has the bomb.

Inspections are built into the tentative deal. From the world of facts:

Quote:
"I was expecting either no agreement today or a much thinner one,” said Richard N. Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations. “It is more substantive and more comprehensive than many us thought would be the case.”

Haass specifically praised the extent of monitoring of the nuclear supply chain and concessions on the number of centrifuges.

Here's what the agreement actually provides on inspections:
Quote:

— Rigorous transparency and inspection measures to ensure that Iran doesn’t cheat on any deal. They include granting the IAEA intrusive access to Iran’s nuclear facilities and supply chain, including to its domestic uranium mines and mills. The inspections would continue even after many elements of the deal have expired in 2025, including surveillance of Iran’s centrifuge rotors until 2035. Iran has also agreed to some indefinite transparency measures.
— In return for the limits on Iran’s program, the U.S. and EU will suspend sanctions after the IAEA has verified Iran’s compliance with the deal

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/iran-nuclear-deal-breakthrough-116618.html#ixzz3WHbkxpY1



Cue the music now--"I scare myself." This is an infinitely better result than what the previous administration did when Iran first ramped up acquisition of centrifuges. For those who can't remember, Bush refused to believe the inspectors and invaded Iraq. It is also immensely better than the result when the most unstable country to now have nuclear weapons, Pakistan, first developed them. That program began in 1972, had enough material for a bomb by 1985, and first tested their bomb in 1998. Nixon was President in 1972, Reagan was President in 1985, and Clinton was President in 1998.

Tell me again about Saint Ronnie while you stoke your paranoia.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4164

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before everyone on the left jumps for joy, let's see if indeed a deal is made and what it REALLY entails. Then there will be room for debate.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baja-human wrote:
beaglebuddy wrote:
Yet even more bla bla bla, inspections????!!!! It's all just more muslim lies and deception without full unfettered INSPECTIONS.
And.... the deal gives them the bomb anyways, can we just start bombing, way, way overdue.
Can't believe you are defending them, this is a new low for liberalism.



ya like we would ever believe a right winger would tell the truth. ya still looking for those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,

that lie by the right wingers have only cost us about 3 trillion and more as the ME is exploding and our gas prices went up when we were lied to that gas would be cheap if we went to Iraq. what was the right wingers projected cost of the short war a few hundred million.

friggen right wingers shut your frigging lying mouths.... when your lips move we have another costly lie.

again the UN inspections in Iraq were correct. you right wingers were liars.

You shut your filthy mouth idiot,


“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. A deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
– Sen. John F. Kerry, Oct. 9, 2002

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” – Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists.”
— President Bill Clinton, 1998

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program… ” – Sen. Hillary Clinton, Oct 10, 2002

Plenty WMD's found in Iraq, in fact ISIS just found some Saddam had stashed away.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17751
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BB--another above the fold guy. There is clear evidence that Saddam had nerve gas at the time of the first Gulf War, and destroyed it in response to sanctions. I guess the course of time is still a mystery to you.

The Bush administration knew that Saddam had destroyed those weapons. But there's not much you actually do know, is there.
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