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konajoe
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 517
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 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait a second! Frankensail has a leech line? Then, I bet it's also a pinhead. At the top of the mast, does the sail come to a point, or is it squared off? If it comes to a point, that would be an older sail that would be very powerful for its size, and would work really well in light wind without operating on it. Did you ever say what brand, model, and size it is?.
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I had several sails in the old days with leach lines. I never found a need to tighten the leach since there was basically no or little twist at the top anyway. I believe it was a "fine tuning" effort that really achieved very little, at least in the Neil Pryde sails that I had at the time.
Experimenting with battens, DH, OH, etc. is all fine in order to achieve better low wind efficiency. However, the potential gains, if any, in non-planing conditions will likely be un-noticeable by most novice/intermediate windsurfers, especially if lake sailing in variable winds. However, screwing around with the various types of sail adjustments does help one understand how rigging and tuning can change how a sail functions.
I think this has been pointed out, but 10-12 knots of wind isn't sub-planing for many windsurfers. It's all equipment and skill dependent. I have always had the "big stuff", both for fun and racing. If there is any chance of planing (for me - 9 knots or more), then I am out and on the water. Sub-planing conditions, & I will be on the golf course. On the other hand, many enjoy cruising on longboards in light winds, which is great if that's what you enjoy.
I have been out of town for a week and noticed that a statement that I made previously may have been misinterpreted. I said that "increasing DH may not reduce the draft in all sails". Actually, I do think it will in all sails, but I left in the "may not" simply because I am not totally sure because of the vast number of manufacturers and sail designs over the last 30 years.
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| konajoe wrote: | | Wait a second! Frankensail has a leech line? Then, I bet it's also a pinhead. At the top of the mast, does the sail come to a point, or is it squared off? If it comes to a point, that would be an older sail that would be very powerful for its size, and would work really well in light wind without operating on it. Did you ever say what brand, model, and size it is?. |
Hi Konajoe
My sail is tapered off towards the tip, as per enclosed photo, (not exatly triangular but neither squared off like today's sails).The leech line starts on the leech at the height of the last panel junction at the batten end.
The sail is a Sailworks Race 5.6. I'am sure that it is supposedly very powerful for its size, but still insufficient for the light winds I sail with. This is why I was trying to extend the light wind range by working on the batten.
Ittiandro
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pete1111
Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 193
Location: The Dude
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| It's a 5.6 there is not much you can do to make that sail more powerful.
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| pete1111 wrote: | | It's a 5.6 there is not much you can do to make that sail more powerful. |
It is also true, however, that older sails of the same size ( 5.5-6 m2 )were quite sufficient to subplane in very light winds, whereas even behemoth sails as large as 8.5 m2 are barely up to the task.
Perhaps the size by itself is not an absolute limiting factor:modern sails have a planing bias which, to me, erodes the the low-end capability( light winds) of the sail. Perhaps one of the elements of this planing bias is the battens layout and the necessity of a strong DH. I was thinking that modifying or altogether removing some of the batten may substantially increase the low-end power of the sail more than we think by just looking at its size.
Nobody knows, but I have nothing to lose trying.
I certainly apppreciate the comments made in this forum.
Ittiandro
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Humour( even true humour...) is not always, if ever, the best way to refute or to explain) facts:
1st I am not expecting to sail in 0 winds(!), but in 12 knts or so.
2nd: in this range, people are even planing! ( of course with very large sails and perhaps also with more technique than I have)
So why is it so unrealistic to expect that I should at least SUBPLANE in 12 knts by modifying a sail, however small ?
If you want to take part in this debate with arguments and reasons, you are more than welcome, if you want to.. promote Amazon's umbrella sales, this is not the right place.
Ittiandro
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Why slog on a WSer when you could plane on a kite?
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| When I bought my first windsurfing kit, a brand new 1985 F2 Strato, the sail that came with it was a high aspect F2 5.7 RAF. Like most sails at the time, it had a remarkably good low end, and you could get around in almost no wind. Of course, the Strato was 11'10" long and included a daggerboard, but it was a board designed for planing and had footstraps. Later when I bought a "big" sail to get myself planing in very light winds, it was a 6.7.
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | | When I bought my first windsurfing kit, a brand new 1985 F2 Strato, the sail that came with it was a high aspect F2 5.7 RAF. Like most sails at the time, it had a remarkably good low end, and you could get around in almost no wind. Of course, the Strato was 11'10" long and included a daggerboard, but it was a board designed for planing and had footstraps. Later when I bought a "big" sail to get myself planing in very light winds, it was a 6.7. |
Swchandler
You are absolutely right. Eventually, what I need is a longboard and a longboard-designed sail like an Aerotech Windsup or similar.
For the moment, I was just trying to save some money by making do with my Bic Core 293 and the sails I have and have fun, too, working on it.
Ittiandro
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