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Is my board too small?
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2674
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the constraint of only 2 boards? If garage space is not a problem,
keep 3 boards. Then if it's really windy, you can take the 2 smallest boards,, if it's light wind, take the 2 big boards.
Most people can't handle a board bigger than 96L in wind over 25knots so if you want to sail in that wind, you'll need that board!
I think you'll be much happier keeping and learning to use the 96L and getting another used 115L to fill the medium wind need.

Not to mention, you'll take a big $$ loss in resale of the 96L,,,,,plus
I almost guarantee you'll want it back in a year or so when your skills improve.
(I've been there myself)


Last edited by carl on Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what you say Anton, the key is clearly your ability to uphaul, and then BALANCE a wobbly smaller board and rig, when there is little wind in the luuly bits, and nothing to lean on. (Always tricky.) If that is the case you'd be better advised to stay at about 120 litres. There are many good boards both old and new of that volume, with respectable control in the stronger gusts.

Two I often use in such variable, especially offshore, conditions, are an old Bic Techno 112 medium (a bit below 120 litres, but easy to use), and a more modern Exocet Cross 118 litre board. (shortish and widish, and easy to balance for its size.) The 120 litre size has Always been a kind of midway passage between lighter and stronger winds, and not to be sneered at.

Perhaps that volume would be the best bet for you for the next year or so, until you feel fully confident of moving down to 100 or so litres? (You shouldn't have to swim in then.)
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Anton,

While I could explain both (low wind waterstart and low wiind uphaul),
It's not really going to do you much good without more time on the water.
And, you may be asking too much of the board you want. I want a board that's good from 15-40MPH also, but the physics just won't allow it.

I don't think you'll see much difference between the 96 you currently
own and a 108. A 118 is a better possibility, but it's going to be
a little bouncy from 27MPH on up. I do think you need more time
on the water, and if you're not going to be able to ride the 96
(for whatever reason), and you can only have 2 boards, you'll
want that 120-130 ltr board ....... for about 2 seasons, then you'll
want something like the 96 again.

My experience with "the disadvantage of the short wide freemove boards"
is that they bounce in heavy chop. I think if you really want some upper
range in a large short board (and I consider 120 ltrs and up pretty large)
you might want to look at some older used boards with a more drawn out
longer rocker line and a narrower tail (something like 8'10-9'2 in length).
You might get lucky and they should be really inexpensive.

Also, you can often "quiet" your larger short board down considerably in
higher wind, by swapping the fin out for a smaller curvier fin. It's
less expensive than a new board.

Good luck!

-Craig

p.s. 10 Knots (or even 10 MPH) is plenty of wind to waterstart if you've
been doing it for 20 years. At 5MPH it's a desperation uphaul, or a
lucky encounter with a fishing boat.


antonputtemans wrote:
And you can tell me how you can uphaul your 60L board and waterstart in 10 knot's well I can't, it's only 2 years that I own my own windsurf boards..

What are the disadvantages of those thin, short 'n wide freemoves btw? I imagine the benefits come with a price.
I am not sure but are these boards not designed for lakes and light/medium winds?
And what about a "classic" 115L Rocket or a 116L 3S?? If I could just have some more upper range and control than I had on my 125 Rocket I would be happy!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

antonputtemans wrote:
I need the board to work in higher winds than the typically 120L's. About 20-35 knots (23-40 mph) for my 6.6, 5.5, 4.7 sails.... I should look at the smaller 100-110L

You're not going to be using a 4.7 in 30 mph winds, and a 3.2 will eat your lunch anywhere north of 35. And even if rigged right at 30 mph, 100L will be one bouncy, outta control handful unless your lake is actually a pond.

antonputtemans wrote:
Will 110L of volume be enough? I think so. The added width will surely help staying on the board and uphauling because it's those 2 I have an issue with. I aint sailing out on a board that I have to swim home!!

Then you aren't ready for winds averaging 30 in rough terrain. Again. my point was that that's a TOW problem, not a board size problem. Sure, we can manhandle big boards in little-board conditions -- I rode my strapless windSUP in winds averaging 35 mph and gusting way over 40 this summer -- but it circumvents the learning process and I had no choice due to an injury. I sailed my 240L 13' longboard in winds of 30 gusting over 40, but a) the water was like a mirror, b) we'd never heard of shorter boards, c) my 3.8 sail was vastly overpowered in the gusts, d) that was the day I discovered spinout, e) it was that or not sail, and f) I learned a lot that day by pushing to and beyond my limits.

This is not a criticism; it's an observation and an impression: You seem to be trying to avoid pushing your limits (e.g., avoiding board sizes you're not at ease on). That will slow your progress by years, and could very easily prevent you from ever learning to plane through jibes, which require committing yourself to unstable scenarios. These things are more like motorcycles than they are cars, as WSers and cycles require leaning over - as in falling -- to turn.

antonputtemans wrote:
And you can tell me how you can uphaul your 60L board and waterstart in 10 knot's. well I can't

Nor can I. More importantly, why would I want to? If I can't plane on it, I donwanna be standing on it; the isometric hula is WAY too much work. That's why I don't take boards that small out if there are many lulls that bad. I CAN waterstart in light breezes given enough flotation, but, again, Idonwanna unless I reallyreallyreally need to be somewhere else soon and/or am on a big floater ... which I very seldom am. As a result of that and the fact that all but one of my boards are sinkers, I haven't put an uphaul on my booms since back in the '80s. (And before J chimes in about Gorge winds, I didn't move to the Gorge until this century.)

Swimming, planing, slogging, pumping, uphauling, bobbing in the water up to one's neck or sitting on the board while waiting for a gust, "sailing" in the waterstart position, riding the escalator (using the current), going ashore and walking or hitchhiking, and sailing sitting down on the board are some of the ways to get back to our van. The upsides, downsides, and choices among them are extensive and highly personal. One big, quick, simple question I ask myself about board size every time I launch is, "In these conditions, which is more important to me ... planing back to my starting point, maneuvering as much as possible, avoiding a swim, or avoiding getting pounded to death?" i.e., What are the pros and cons of the board sizes I'm considering, and which pros/cons matter most today? (That question still matters, but is much easier to answer with just two boards.)

antonputtemans wrote:
it's only 2 years that I own my own windsurf boards.

We are thus very impressed by the conditions you're aspiring to. If you combine that with pushing your limits and listening to others' input, you'll advance rapidly. Most WSers would kill for options like that.

antonputtemans wrote:
What are the disadvantages of ... short 'n wide [boards]?

Lower top speed, more bounce in chop, and reduced control when overpowered. That comes straight from a respected magazine, and many here have agreed. However, they are often more user-friendly in the learning process and work just fine in their intended environment.

antonputtemans wrote:
I am not sure but are these boards not designed for lakes and light/medium winds?

"Lakes" means little, if any. I've sailed in 6-foot waves and 60-mph winds (not at the same time) in lakes a thousand miles inland, the (theoretically) wild'd'windy Columbia River Gorge is nothing BUT lakes (some with and some without perceptible currents), the U.S. Great Lakes may as well be oceans, and I've gotten caught out in stronger winds in our desert state of New Mexico than I've even SEEN in the Gorge. We gotta collectively get over this "lakes = mild conditions" myth.

"Light" and "Medium" are relative terms. Short/wide boards in general favor lighter winds than do their same-volume longer/narrower brethren, in accordance with the pros and cons mentioned above.

antonputtemans wrote:
And what about a "classic" 115L Rocket or a 116L 3S?? If I could just have some more upper range and control than I had on my 125 Rocket I would be happy!

The difference between 125 and 115L is mighty small, not very widespread for a two-board quiver with the range of winds you seem to have available.

Man, you ask a lot of questions. GOOD! That's a great part of the multifaceted learning process also including TOW, listening, pushing one's self, reading, taking lessons, and more.
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antonputman



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 137
Location: North Shore Italy

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmm I know I should keep the 3S......
Just need to convince the GF sleeping in the van with me on the ever expanding pile of gear!!
I just see a used RRD FSW 111 LTD from 2011 for 500€. Still to small than?
New 115 Rocket or 116 3S 2014 models in CED constructions will set me at 1.000€.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Freemoves have NO dissadvantages up to 30MPH , people do all kinds of things on them with different sails and fins-true Swiss Army knives. If you prefer a moderate wind board get a 110l instead of 120, but keep the 96 for the strong wind with sails below 6.0. A 110 l Freemove if sailed regularly will help you progress incredibly fast and in a season or two you'll be ready for the 96.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5329
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a "freemove" board that is 80 liters, 61cm wide, and thinner than any surfboard. It works great in gusts to 30, but after that, a narrower board slides between the wind waves and jibes much easier.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What your asking for is not possible. At 23 to 40 mph your looking at a sub eighty liter board with a darn small sail to have any kind of fun. I'm a pretty lite guy but I sail with some boys. When the wind starts hitting that speed the big guys drop down to almost the same size board and sail I use. Keep your 96 3s. Its a very fun smooth board. Get yourself an old used 120 ish board to beat up and learn on. If your look at the inwindsurf adds, you almost never see a 3s for sale. People get them and keep them because they work..
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 3s has a much ticker pad and it helps smooth the ride. I have both the 2015 Rocket 115 ltd and the 3s 96 CED. When the wind comes up a bit the 3s is just a blast to sail. I haven't seen or sailed the 3s 116 but if its anything like its smaller brothers it would be a good choice. You might consider the New Rockets wide 118. The new freemove boards are very forgiving and might fit your skill set better. Check out Big Winds for the JP Magic ride 118 in the full wood. They have a killer sail and include a board bag...
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVAAN wrote:
What your asking for is not possible. At 23 to 40 mph your looking at a sub eighty liter board with a darn small sail to have any kind of fun.

Depends on how desperate one is to get on the water (see my strapless windSUP comment above.) Very Happy

Even its dealer would be surprised at the amount of wind it worked well in (I didn't find its upper limit this whole summer). The difference is that I had to restrain its speed to a slow plane in big swell to avoid air time, so its ride even at 30" wide was fine. And of course one can sail a big floater with a 3.2 in 1 mph if he wants to practice his light air freestyle or motor from Point A to Point B.

Do I suggest that this was more fun than strapping in and going for it? HELL, no. But it was interesting and educational, and it helped me resist launches on sinkers in way too much wind before getting strapped in. (It also drew a LOT of favorable comments at both ends of its performance envelope.)[/i]
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