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What is happening when I am overpowered?
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ghost1



Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: What is happening when I am overpowered? Reply with quote

Just trying to get a better understanding of what is happening when I am overpowered.

When the wind picks up too much before I drop a size I typically feel some weird things. I find that I actually have to PUSH on my front hand and pull on my back hand so hard to keep going in a straight line. At this point my harness lines are so far back that I don't think I could put them back any further. Also, I struggle to prevent the board from going upwind.

Are these the normal signs of being overpowered and needing to drop sail sizes? I'm also not sure why my board is acting this way, can anybody explain it?[/list]
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could be time to down size. what about trimming your sails with the right tensions on down haul and out haul? are you following the guidelines on the sails?
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct: that's a sign of being overpowered and if you are at a max downhaul already and you have lots of outhaul and your boom is not too high it means it's time to downsize Sad
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2597
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What is happening when I am overpowered? Reply with quote

Yup, those are normal signs of being overpowered, and you can add spinning out a lot too.

There's actually a moment of torque, that occurs when a gust
hits a sail, and you can really feel it with strong gusts on big sails,
making you have to push with your front arm. Back when sails were
less stable, the leading edge of the sail might actuallly collapse, and
you'd get forced into the water(20 years ago), but sails are so stable
now that if you've got the stones for it (and enough weight), they just
go faster and faster (to a point where drag overwhelms power).

Rounding up is also par for the course, but somewhere just shy of
a stall you should be able to rip up wind in control.

.02

-Craig

ghost1 wrote:
Just trying to get a better understanding of what is happening when I am overpowered.

When the wind picks up too much before I drop a size I typically feel some weird things. I find that I actually have to PUSH on my front hand and pull on my back hand so hard to keep going in a straight line. At this point my harness lines are so far back that I don't think I could put them back any further. Also, I struggle to prevent the board from going upwind.

Are these the normal signs of being overpowered and needing to drop sail sizes? I'm also not sure why my board is acting this way, can anybody explain it?[/list]
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windoggi



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agree with cgoudie...in the olden days, if it felt like a brick wall had just collapsed on you, you knew you were overpowered.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More downhaul, more outhaul, properly placed harness lines (can you sail in a beam reach with no hands?), newer sails, smaller fin/board/sail, skills, pushing your control envelope rather than rigging down unnecessarily, pinching upwind and running downwind when overpowered, and TOW are among the solutions. Work on all those and the problem will go away. It happened to me plenty decades ago, but I don't recall encountering it more than once or twice in the last 10 or 20 years now, and I usually run bigger sails than others anywhere near my size.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to cgoudie who correctly pointed out that this happens with big sails only -7.0 and up maybe -I think I'm starting to understend what actually happens . I don't remember this happening with my smaller sails, but I also don't remember anything like this when I was using a 8.5 -3 cambered semi racing sail with a 100% carbon and extremely stiff 490 racing mast. I just might have been lucky but I think the mast matters.
Most big freeride sails have a forward and down draft which gives us a better control over the board . When a gust so strong that the leech is unable to spill it anymore hits, the sail wants to bag out but since it's not elastic it forces the mast to bend too much wich collapses the sail shape and moves it's draft way back and probably up /all that real estate makes this so much easier:(/and since the harness lines are all of a sudden to forward to let us counteract with our bodies we are forced to pull/push with our arms now /love the adjustable outhaul systems/. The conclusion : the bigger the sail the stiffer a mast you need-preferably SDM and preferably some cambers in the sail -which creates a whole lot of other issues like rigging , weight, cost etc. been there, done that, don't want to look back. The idea to get planing ever earlier with ever bigger sails is borderline foolish for anyone who's not racing. The right way is to look in the other direction and to work on efficiency in order to be able to do more with less .
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig is right about today's sails. They can really stretch the limits by keeping the power down low and letting the biggest puffs exit off the top. More often than not in huge winds, it can be your fin that throws you by providing too much lift.
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it can be your fin that throws you by providing too much lift.


fins don't create lift. Sail creates lift. Fins work 100% on viscous forces.

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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665

PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not be ridiculous please! Fins DO create lift , everybody knows that! Swhandler is taking this conversation in the wrong direction for some reason by involving the fins which are actualy our only friend in this situation. With its draft completely displaced the rig starts pulling the whole rig sideways instead of forward and it is only the fin preventing it from being rotated upwind in an instant.
People who never experienced this "phenomenon" have no idea what this talk is about and just throw in random thoughts I guess .
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