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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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again, i want my 11'5 back!
failing that, i don't bother with the dagger.
can appreciate the app's that windnc does, but have no need to. i sail 2-3 back side rides for every frontside. sometimes, 3 in a row of either. always get back to my launch. never much of a walk for me....
kona one dagger is too specifically race or flat water for me.
james your GF should graduate pretty soon to no dagger required?
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Sailboarder
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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d0uglass wrote: |
My first choice for the 11'8" would be to have a GOOD daggerboard system like on the Kona ONE. Second choice would be no daggerboard. Last choice would be the crummy Allgaier daggerboard system it comes with now.
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I tought that Allgaier were good systems. My 30 YO Sailboard Vario has one and it's still working fine. It operates better than the K1 but leaks a bit more water without geyser at all. Mine has (natural?) black rubber gaskets that survived well. The design looks quite similar, but it may now be cheaper.
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d0uglass
Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 1286 Location: Bonita Springs, Florida
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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@jingebritsen- Despite being a brilliant and coordinated former college athlete who loves the ocean, my GF is an exceptionally recalcitrant windsurfer. She's got all the usual things that make it hard to teach someone- perfectionist, doesn't like to be out-of-control, sensitive to being watched by other beachgoers or pushed/pressured by me, good at psyching herself out, etc. So we're on the ultra-slow, soft-sell route of progression and will probably still need the daggerboard for a long time.
@ Sailboarder- I don't think the Allgaier gaskets are as good as they used to be. Mine wasn't sized quite right for the slot in the 11'8", and the lips weren't attached at the front or back of the slot, so they would peel open real easily (see pic). Seems like it would be simple enough for the manufacturers to improve with a little more qa/qc at the factory.
In general, I think the odd selection of rockers and poor quality of fittings (cheap or poorly placed mast attachments and daggerboards, no footstraps, etc.) on many brands of WindSUP boards indicates a dismissive attitude of the manufacturers towards WindSUP'ing in general. ->
Although some now build WindSUP shapes with the potential to blast around and rip it up in the waves, the way they're usually marketed suggest the makers think all you're going to do with WindSUP is dink around a lake with your kid, dog, and/or petite GF sitting on the nose. And many are hardly marketed at all- e.g. no action pictures or videos exist of the Exocet WindSUPs.
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 1120
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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To make myself perfectly clear to the Exocet corporation, Exocet supporters and sponsored sailors, although I had a problem with my 11'8" the issue was completely resolved to my satisfaction and I can state without any reservation that Exocet stands behind their exceptional and innovative products and I would of course recommend the purchase of any Exocet gear.
Have I made myself perfectly clear?
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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d0uglass wrote: | my GF is an exceptionally recalcitrant windsurfer. She's got all the usual things that make it hard to teach someone |
James, I would have said the same things about my daughter when I tried to teach her ... except that I saw her learn quite quickly in the proper surroundings. This might be a case where teaching someone close to you just does not work (true for at least 90% of couples).
Maybe the two of you should join an ABK camp in Hatteras, Corpus, or Bonaire. I'm sure you would enjoy it, but I also bet you'd be surprised how much your GF can pick up in 4 or 5 days. When my wife did her first ABK camp about 5 years ago, she was not in the straps and did not know how to jibe; now, she sails better than I do. We've gotten to the point where seeing her try things makes we want to learn new things .
http://vimeo.com/88019466
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012 Posts: 1120
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard it said more than once that you should never attempt to teach your wife or girlfriend how to windsurf yourself.
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outhaul
Joined: 27 Sep 2011 Posts: 254
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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d0uglass wrote: |
In general, I think the odd selection of rockers and poor quality of fittings (cheap or poorly placed mast attachments and daggerboards, no footstraps, etc.) on many brands of WindSUP boards indicates a dismissive attitude of the manufacturers towards WindSUP'ing in general. ->
Although some now build WindSUP shapes with the potential to blast around and rip it up in the waves, the way they're usually marketed suggest the makers think all you're going to do with WindSUP is dink around a lake with your kid, dog, and/or petite GF sitting on the nose. And many are hardly marketed at all- e.g. no action pictures or videos exist of the Exocet WindSUPs. |
Ding ding ding— James, that's right on the money,
the WindSup category is hugely under developed.
I believe most brands truly don't understand the concept, they install a cheap mast plug insert on a SUP and they're done. More boards are needed that are windsurfers first and foremost which means a decent mast track, footstraps, and windsurfing rocker for planing!
I think Exocet has it mostly correct with their hull shapes but more sizes are needed and options without daggerboard, and of course lighter and more robust constructions. This would be a windsurfing board that one could SUP if need be so a new name, something without "SUP" in it is sorely needed. It's not a race board but would be fast, not a SUP but could be paddled. Any ideas?
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: |
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kona/curve 11'5 original rocker and thickness applied to the windSUP 10' style planform without the dagger, at about the 10'6" (320 cm) length and 75 cm width. there is something quite perfect for early planing, yet flat out blasting AND turning about that 75 cm width. seen it on lots of different hulls over the years. anything wider suffers a bit in turning. that's for me and my weight, but also applies to a broad array of body types....
the 11'5 turned well, but the 10'5 turned better. the 11'5 planed well, but the windSUP 10 footer turned even better, despite it's width. one of the trickier bits concerning the first planing for surf long boards was the planing into non-planing gibes. if one did not retain the plane, the non-planing aspect of gibing would be required. if one anticipates this, there are 2 ways to deal with it: pick a higher gust in which to turn, or be ready to shift from inside rail pressure to outside....
_________________ www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/ |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 2599 Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Sure......... the WSSUP or "wassup" board with the
urban lake version, The Homie
the Mission Bay version, The Holmes
and the central city reservoir version, The Dawg
;*)
-Craig
outhaul wrote: | Ding ding ding— James, that's right on the money,
the WindSup category is hugely under developed.
I believe most brands truly don't understand the concept, they install a cheap mast plug insert on a SUP and they're done. More boards are needed that are windsurfers first and foremost which means a decent mast track, footstraps, and windsurfing rocker for planing!
I think Exocet has it mostly correct with their hull shapes but more sizes are needed and options without daggerboard, and of course lighter and more robust constructions. This would be a windsurfing board that one could SUP if need be so a new name, something without "SUP" in it is sorely needed. It's not a race board but would be fast, not a SUP but could be paddled. Any ideas? |
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outhaul
Joined: 27 Sep 2011 Posts: 254
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Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: WindSUP |
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Windnc wrote: | I still like having the daggerboard in my 11-8 WindSUP when ocean/wave sailing in side-on conditions. Once out beyond the break I find it very hand for quickly sailing on a close haul way up the beach a couple miles. Then it is just a blast to kick it back up and do a fast downwinder surfing the waves in and surfing the swells on deep broad reach runs on the outside as you head back. Then just kick the board back down again to head back up wind and repeat the whole process. Lots of Fun.
Plus having the dagger board available allows you to sail way downwind of launch riding waves and swells and then use it to get back up to where you started quickly. No walks of shame!
Additionally, there have been times when the wind is very light and side-offshore with a current running into the inlet. However there are nice waves jacking up for DTL wave riding right into the mouth of the inlet. Once off the wave and into the inlet the slog back up wind is slow though because of the incoming tidal current. Having the daggerboard available really helps you point upwind higher and gets you back up wind enough to do it again, and again.
For normal side off and sideshore light wind wavesailing I agree that the daggerboard is not really needed though.
Chuck |
WindNC that is very well stated and pretty much exactly how I use my 11' 8 on Lake Michigan. It's so much fun — I can't help but think if more people tried this type of windsurfing they'd love it and we'd have more choices in boards that do what the 11'8 does so well.
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