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Pipe dream? Obamacare
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

youwindsurf,

I'm glad you mentioned the state's rights issue, because I was going to raise that point and highlight the hypocrisy of Republicans even suggesting portability of moving insurance across state lines. I had a dental appointment, so I had to cut my comments short.

Isn't it ironic that Democrats didn't take them up on the issue? Yet, if the did, I'm sure that the Republicans would have found a way to across it up, especially since they wouldn't have advocated stricter more comprehensive insurance regulations of a state like California.

Even now, Republicans are talking about the need to delay the rollout of the ACA to negotiate "bi-partisan" changes to the law when they have no intent whatsoever to follow through. I'm convinced that their position to postpone the ACA for one year was just a ploy to gain more time to run against the ACA leading up to the 2014 election. As far as negotiating changes to the ACA, they could start doing that today, but that would suggest that they're prepared to accept real healthcare reform. After spending over 3 years attempting to kill the ACA in every way they could, we're suppose to believe that they really believe in healthcare reform and that they support meaningful change?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9300

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:
swchandler wrote:
Actually, I personally believe that we should have a Medicare/Medicad type system for all, but realistically, the right wouldn't support that. Republicans have a record of trying to privatize both Social Security and Medicare, so I seriously doubt that a "socialistic" plan would be acceptable.

The problem with any responsible plan is that it has to be paid for. The way that I see it, Canadians have accepted that. I wish we could.


I had thought that is what the ACA was going to be. Back up insurance for those who cannot get it thru conventional means.


That would have been fine. I have one of the few "grandfathered" policies because I haven't changed it for 5 years. I hear the sad stories of people who have lost their affordable plans with $2million caps and low deductibles for Obama's $6k deductible and double premiums so men can have lactation therapy and no limit on benefits. How do we afford this?

And God forbid, I ever go beyond the $2million cap, I'll just get an Obama plan. How does this make sense?
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1508

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
jpbassking wrote:
swchandler wrote:
Actually, I personally believe that we should have a Medicare/Medicad type system for all, but realistically, the right wouldn't support that. Republicans have a record of trying to privatize both Social Security and Medicare, so I seriously doubt that a "socialistic" plan would be acceptable.

The problem with any responsible plan is that it has to be paid for. The way that I see it, Canadians have accepted that. I wish we could.


I had thought that is what the ACA was going to be. Back up insurance for those who cannot get it thru conventional means.


That would have been fine. I have one of the few "grandfathered" policies because I haven't changed it for 5 years. I hear the sad stories of people who have lost their affordable plans with $2million caps and low deductibles for Obama's $6k deductible and double premiums so men can have lactation therapy and no limit on benefits. How do we afford this?

And God forbid, I ever go beyond the $2million cap, I'll just get an Obama plan. How does this make sense?


Your insurance does not comply with the new standards? So, you're underinsured and fully intend to have someone else pay for treatment if you do break through the 2 million cap and go broke?

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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stevenbard

I had a policy for twenty years. I gave them close to six figures in premiums with no claims. Three years ago, before Obamacare, I received a cancellation notice because the insurance company decided, unilaterally, to stop that plan.

So, I had to get a physical (had not had one since college) and try to qualify for health insurance...crossing my fingers that neither one of us had a pre existing condition. Two middle aged, self employed folks at the mercy of the insurance system.

Boy, do I miss those good ole days?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I have one of the few "grandfathered" policies

In October, before and as our president was telling us that "only" 5% of us -- the 15 million with private insurance -- might lose our health care insurance, his DOJ was arguing in federal court, in defense of the HHS, that up to 90M of us would lose our insurance because corporate group policies were also not protected.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4162

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the CBO numbers for the ACA have been all over the place, with a number of revisions both up and down (mostly up), how could anyone put much trust in their projections?

I am not even suggesting that political gamesmanship was/is involved, just that given the scope and size of the ACA, any numbers put forth by the CBO have to be met with considerable skepticism. If the ACA survives, I would anticipate that the real costs of the ACA will be far greater than any current/past projections.

The selling of the ACA was based largely on the its cost, but once passed, many felt that they had been victims of a "bait and switch" routine. Now that Obama's broken promise about folks being allowed to keep our insurance if they like it has been outed, it's clear that we have been victims of the bait and switch routine.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4162

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser said:
Quote:
Your insurance does not comply with the new standards? So, you're underinsured and fully intend to have someone else pay for treatment if you do break through the 2 million cap and go broke?


Under this logic, everyone that has not bought FULL coverage for their health, cars, homes, life, appliances, etc. needs to have government intervention to require us to buy complete coverage so that we don't become a burden on society should we be hit by a catastrophe. Clearly this is a little overstated (loss of an appliance would not likely place an undue burden on society), but I think you get the point. Auto Liability has already been mandated, but not well enforced, so while I understand the intent, as a matter of reality, it doesn't work nearly as well as intended. Ever been hit by an uninsured motorist?

Where do you become incensed at government intervention? I would guess that liberals and conservatives have different viewpoints.

Once our employers and us as individuals were allowed to shop and buy medical insurance that best fit our needs. Now, big brother is telling us that we are all under insured and we must buy coverage for many things that we could not possibly use. As it turns out, its not for our protection, but to justify higher premiums to help cover the costs of those that will get free or subsidized coverage. It's just a way to tax us and lay the blame on the insurance companies. Sorry, I just don't like these games.
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uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
I have one of the few "grandfathered" policies

In October, before and as our president was telling us that "only" 5% of us -- the 15 million with private insurance -- might lose our health care insurance, his DOJ was arguing in federal court, in defense of the HHS, that up to 90M of us would lose our insurance because corporate group policies were also not protected.


Source?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno

While I agree with you in principle, in practice it has not been the case. Medical costs are driven by the well insured that have large group policies either through employment or the government. Those of us that do not have access to these plans do not enjoy the same protections, but are left paying the high unit costs generated by these individuals.

Add in unscrupulous business practices by insurance companies and you have a very tenuous situation for roughly 5% of the population. In addition, another group of folks cannot even get this high cost and, frankly crappy, coverage. One thing is interesting. Until the last couple weeks, those of us in the individual market could not generate any interest from the Republicans. I appreciate the new found concern.
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uwindsurf



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
Posts: 968
Location: Classified

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Once our employers and us as individuals were allowed to shop and buy medical insurance that best fit our needs...Sorry, I just don't like these games.


Many people elected not to purchase insurance or purchased insurance that was essentially valueless. These people then were unable to pay for their medical care. The cost of their medical care was passed on to me in the form or higher health insurance premiums and/or increased property taxes (the medical indigency fund in my State is funded from real property taxes).

Why am I paying the medical care given to other people who elected to forego medical insurance or who elected to purchased policies with essentially no coverage? Techno, the system you prefer sounds a bit like socialism. You don't like these games? I don't like paying for someone else's medical care.
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