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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tweeky wrote: | | isobars wrote: | | I and I don't walk through the woods on all fours wearing antlers in hunting season, |
Oh, just in the off-season then? |
Well, YEAH! Jeez ... it'd be dangerous in hunting ... or rutting ... season.  |
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andymc4610
Joined: 19 May 2000
Posts: 684
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | SlightlySalty wrote: | 1. Sounds like Isobars injuries were all before windsurfing.
2. So there is no relation to his perference and the prevention of injury unless he can say that he's injured his ankles because of loose straps.
3. When ya all talk about wave sailors with their feet in the straps up to their ankles, that just isn't true. Sure they might be larger than Isobars toe straps
4. I can say that Isobars cannot turn his board like someone that has larger straps.
5. Show me a board that doesn't turn with back foot input
6. Want to know how to keep your foot in a larger strap? Curl your toes a bit.
Want to know how to get your foot out of a larger strap? Uncurl your toes a bit.
7. Over 30 years experience talking and never, not once had an ankle injury windsurfing.
8. Loosen up will ya! |
Man, you guys care more than I do about how I sail. Oh, well, here goes.
1. I have permanent scars on the top of my left arch from footstrap injuries that hurt for years. I had to sail all one summer with only my toes in that strap because of the pain if the strap touched my arch. Many times I've had to use brute force to take boards from 8' to 12' long over the nose with me -- sort of a surface loop or forced pearl -- to save my front arch from being crushed. I've come extremely close to severe foot and ankle injuries many times when front feet didn't release.
2. Loose ... tight ... whatever ... My top priority is that my foot comes out when I go over the bars. Considering what a badly crushed arch can do to one's sailing for years, everything else is secondary.
3. My front feet go in to the point the pressure point (and the scar) is at the peak, or center, of that arch (if you could call my flat feet "arched"). That spot is about 2" in front of my shin. How far my toes emerge in front of the strap depends on how wide the strap is; some of my front straps are very wide kiteboard straps because I like their soft, flanged leading edge.
4. I'm not in breaking waves, nor am I at Kodak Point at the Hatchery after the crowds arrive, so I virtually never see anyone carve tighter turns at high speed than I do, and many people comment on my turns. That's good enough for me. I have no idea how my turns compare to those of elite sailors, because I've never watched pros sail. I'm not a spectator.
5. A few I've demoed, tested at length, and/or owned that don't turn as quickly as I want off the back foot include 2010 Thommen MWX 83, '08 Fanatic FSW, Rutger Wave, '08(?) Starboard Kombat, 2001 AHD Power Wave, 2001 Naish Wave 8-7, a Drops Wave, and many more ... and those are just the ones I chose because they were reputed to turn. There are literally hundreds of other wave, B&J, FSW, global wave, etc. boards I didn't even try because they are reputed to be even more sluggish turners.
6. I usually set up my front pads so their leading edge gives me a grip ridge. My front straps overlap as it is, so my toes are often on or across the centerline now; my protruding big toe often hits my lee strap. But since I don't need to engage my whole rail to turn, I see no need to have my front arch on the centerline.
7. Great ... and that explains a lot. One severe ankle injury may change your tune, however. I trained myself to be careful of my ankles with every step after experiencing 20-30 extremely painful ankle injuries over 30 years.
8. But you did say "talk about wave sailors with their feet in the straps up to their ankles, that just isn't true. you think the guys that ride waves are going to put their feet in up to their ankles??", and if my straps were literally 1 mm looser, I'd be in up to my ankles. There's no in between; if my feet don't stop 2" from my shins, they go right up to my shins.
Understand that virtually all my boards have tails under about 12"/30 cm wide and tail rails as thin as a dull axe blade. Some tails are so thin their A fin box had to be cut down to fit flush on the deck. They track and turn just fine at full speed, with the fin exposed if I so choose. |
how does one make this huge wall of text? |
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westender
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:45 am Post subject: |
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I see Iso at the swaps and even BS'ed with him a time or two but have never seen him on the water, and I've been keeping an eye out for years. HHmmm,, . Can he sail circles around Whitesalmon Mike? Another of the "Old" 3.5 hanger on'ers??? Boy,, the good old days. 
I do recall a friend saying they saw Iso hanging around the parking lot at Roosevelt a few years ago. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| andymc4610 wrote: | | how does one make this huge Wall of Text? |
Mental Ex-Lax + no sailing + direct questions = WOT ?
And to think many people complain that I don't write enough ... seriously! |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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There aren't many that sail circles around Whitesalmon Mike. I've seen
them both sail (though WSM a lot more since he's usually down town
with the rest of us rats). I'll just say their styles are "different" ;*)
-Craig
| westender wrote: | I see Iso at the swaps and even BS'ed with him a time or two but have never seen him on the water, and I've been keeping an eye out for years. HHmmm,, . Can he sail circles around Whitesalmon Mike? Another of the "Old" 3.5 hanger on'ers??? Boy,, the good old days.
I do recall a friend saying they saw Iso hanging around the parking lot at Roosevelt a few years ago. |
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SlightlySalty
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Ok, so nothing personal Isobars at all. Just difference of opinion.
However it one is giving suggestions on strap size then it would help if we all knew that your strap size is adjusted according to existing injuries. That's a whole nother story. That would go under "how do you adjust your straps with a foot injury" thread.
I always think it's funny when people say the Maui dudes run their straps up to their ankles. As long as people don't take it literally.
Adjusting your straps to accomodate an injury is one thing but adjusting the straps for pure performance is another.
And yes, if I ever do injure my foot, I might have to change my tune. But so far so good and with the extra room, I'll cross my toes for good luck
One last thing. One the back foot turning thing. If you are trying tons of boards, you also have to spend some time tuning them to your likeing and that means adjusting the mast track, fin and position of the rear strap and front straps. Other than those big wide slalom things, there's not a board out there that doesn't turn with rear foot pressure.
Let the summer begin!! See you on the water.  |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SlightlySalty wrote: | Ok, so nothing personal Isobars at all. Just difference of opinion.
it would help if we all knew that your strap size is adjusted according to existing injuries. That's a whole nother story. That would go under "how do you adjust your straps with a foot injury" thread. Adjusting your straps to accomodate an injury is one thing but adjusting the straps for pure performance is another.
I always think it's funny when people say the Maui dudes run their straps up to their ankles. As long as people don't take it literally.
One the back foot turning thing. If you are trying tons of boards, you also have to spend some time tuning them to your likeing and that means adjusting the mast track, fin and position of the rear strap and front straps. Other than those big wide slalom things, there's not a board out there that doesn't turn with rear foot pressure. |
Nothing personal taken. But I gotta ask once again: does everyone here think their way to WS is the ONLY way? Did you guys all read some book or watch some video that said "There's only one way to jibe ... or plane ... or get in the straps ... or dismount your board ... or ride a swell ... or turn ... or use your harness ..."? If so, I have some bad news for ya: you're missing out on a lot of fun, variety, technique, innovation, etc. I sail for my own entertainment, not to emulate others. I have never seen anyone, in person or on a video, do some of the simple, no-learning-curve, comment-drawing things I do ... and I never read a book about any of them. Professional talker and fast dude Bill Kline of Gorge Fin Connection once asked me to let an international WSing videographer video me because my sailing style does not follow a mold. I don't give a rat's ass about freestyle, or racing, or buoys, or event rules, or start-finish lines or horns, or any other canned, organized, i.e., constraining procedures gleaned from textbooks or rule books. I play, and telling me how or when I must play will get you nowhere. (I will never, ever forget an entire field of dozens of local racers spending a whole, very rare, dawn-til-dark, hot New Mexico 4.2 day STANDING ON SHORE except during their 20-minute race heat while I PLAYED my ass off for 10-12 hours. I'm sorry, guys, but IMO being told when and how and in what direction and with what gear you may sail is mindless slavery, not windsurfing.)
Where on earth did I say my footstraps are set up to accommodate an existing injury? You said no one sets up their straps to run their feet in up to their ankles, and I made it clear that if my front straps were ANY looser, they'd be up to my ankles. Where's the disagreement you're deriding?
I've sailed with my front straps loosened way up. It felt good on big boards on which I'm not slashin' and bashin' or crashin' so much, but I saw no advantage to it on my smaller boards, which is >99% of my sailing. I've also sailed with my straps laterally snug, like the loose-strap advocates recommend; no, thanks ... I prefer my feet to be free to rotate out laterally in a twisting fall.
You spend all the time you want experimenting with mast and strap and fin and boom height and outhaul tension and harness line length; I had way too much of it when getting paid to test hundreds of boards and sails, and now prefer to go windsurfing instead. I figger guys like Nelson, Thommen, Goya, Çurtis, Naish, Brittain, Hunt, Heil, Doyle, Polakow, Rutger, Crichton, Hinde, Ezzy, Spanier, Sheldon, Teboul, French, Benoit, Iggy, Richards, and many, many more have a pretty good idea how their gear should be set up, so I start at their recommended settings, tweak 'em a bit if I think it's necessary for my style and preferences, and go sailin'. I know from reading thousands of hand-written board and sail tests, writing hundreds of magazine board and sail reviews based on those tests, reading extensive recent mag tests of boards I've ridden and/or bought, and talking to owners of boards I've borrowed that my appraisals are consistently smack dead center, from testers with poor jibes to ranked pros.
I'll say it again, just like the U.S. and European test mags do year in and year out: some boards are designed to turn with the front foot, some with the back foot, a few either way. So shoot me if I prefer back foot turning. When a board I'm test driving for my own purposes ignores my back foot twitch, then ignores a hard back foot stab even with the fin forward if it's an A Box, Idonwannit. Fighting a shaper's intent makes no sense, given the hundreds of choices we have out there. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Back to Square One, when jgda wrote: | Just curious, for those who know how to sail the swell and waves, how many of you bury your feet in the straps versus keep them out, and risk the worst, like a lisfranc fracture....don't want that!  |
Notice the most recent post in this threads' sister thread:
"My lisfranc fracture happened in May of 1997 @ Arroyo Laguna on a very windy, sub 4.0 day. After two orthopedists missed the lisfranc fracture and about a month of healing I convinced them to take another x-ray and the fracture was now apparent. They went in and put three screws to hold it together and just let scar tissue hold it all together. I was on crutches form Memorial Day to early August. My first session post surgery was the last week of August at Kanaha and I sailed 13 out of 15 days. It beat the heck out of my foot but it still worked.
14 years later it still hurts when I flex the foot too much when gardening or hiking. Cold weather is not my friend and some days it just takes a while to get it flexible and moving. Bottom line, it is 90%+ and I can still sail, bike and ski.
Good luck in the healing but remember, life can still go on. Best advice is get the best foot surgeon you can find. It is about the worst break you can have because they can't really "fix" it back to normal."
I raced big-bore mo-cycles across unmarked wild terrain (think Moab, forests, swamps, giant sand dunes, slickrock, salt flats, canyons, snow, boulder fields, etc.) several days a week for decades, crashing literally thousands of times, and still don't have lingering injures like this guy's footstrap injury. Foot safety is nothing to blow off just 'cause we're in water and some guys think they can't turn a small wave board without putting their front arch on the centerline. My back foot darn near runs from rail to rail; any board I can't set on its rail with that kind of leverage on a wave fin is too friggin' big anyway.
Mike \m/ |
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Mulekick84
Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 407
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Iso,
You're one Windy Mofo!
Does anyone here care how great he WAS? |
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riv2511
Joined: 19 May 2000
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| You have seen it first here.. The future of windsurfing will be STRAPLESS!!!!!!!! Now isobars will have nothing to be an expert about in this category because it is the NEW STYLE!!!!! Thank kiteboarding for this one!!! Now talk amongst yourselves..... |
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