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Wave Sails vs Freeride Sails
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
Hucker pulls from on high, Tabou. Isn't that a bit ambitious for someone so new? Wouldn't it be better for someone to grow into using that later in the WS career?


read the original post: a high performance sail the poster wants
Hucker is that, the Ezzy more forgiving with a hugh range.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary advantage of a Hucker is its very high center of effort, which boosts altitude and hang time in big jumps. The penalty is a very noticeable vertical lifting on the sailor due to leverage. This makes the sailor work much harder, and loads the board nose, promoting pearling if used on sinkers. That's not only my own test result, but is right there in the Sailworks literature if you read carefully.

It's an excellent and somewhat unique sail designed expressly for high flying Dale Cook, reigning Gorge astronaut. Lesser mortals with less lofty goals are advised to detune the sail so it behaves like any other very good, but no longer unique, sail.

Mike \m/
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wave sails will come in not much larger than 6.2, Revo..Poison, someone probably makes one larger, but my thinking is who would want one.

ref: the Hucker, the 6.6 should sail with as much power as a 7.0,
from a marketing stand point its Dale Cooks " signature" sail
made in sizes from 3.7---6.6, Dale probably does not ride a production sail, but anyway why market a sail line that only he could ride.

A 6.5 Retro may be a better option for this sailor, but Hucker is one as well.

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wooot



Joined: 05 Oct 2002
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a hucker 5.6.. Loft lips below that and a Loft O2 6.6 above

I think the super high pull on a hucker is over rated... at least I can't feel that when sailing. However, it is not a sail for the timid. The windier it gets, the faster it wants to go, whether you want to or not, it has Incredible stability and balance though.... really good in that size range (for me). Will do powered swell slashing, but is not really a sail you can oversheet hard in the top turn to depower. works well on a fast freeride, speed type b&j board. but doesnt really work too well on my Fanatic FW 86 (higher pull that I cant directy feel?? )

Not to sure I would want a Hucker in a 6.6.. which is a HUGE sail size for me.... really like the loft O2 6.6, super stable, great balance and sail handeling, but not as powerfull (for its size) as the hucker, especially in the high wind end of the sail... so easier to depower..... more of a gradual acceleration curve instead of " totally balls to the wall and hang on" like the hucker
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tabou~R2 wrote:
ref: the Hucker, the 6.6 should sail with as much power as a 7.0


Yup ... and at least as much perceived weight and effort. Its high COE (unless tuned out with extra downhaul) works the rider and makes each size of Hucker feel --- in both power and perceived weight -- much like the next bigger size of other sails. The 4.8 Hucker I tested felt a lot like an excellent 5.2 in both power and weight when tuned the way Dale tunes his, except that its extra power was high and thus took more effort to control. With its COE pulled down to achieve the more user-friendly feel most recreational sailors want, the 4.8 felt like ... ta da ... a 4.8.

Tabou~R2 wrote:
from a marketing stand point its Dale Cooks " signature" sail made in sizes from 3.7---6.6, Dale probably does not ride a production sail, but anyway why market a sail line that only he could ride.


Any decent sailor can ride a detuned Hucker (one with extra downhaul to lower its CG), and any very good jumper can benefit from the altitude and hang time advantage of a Hucker tuned like Dale tunes his ... at the cost of working, and getting worked, harder physically. It's not a free lunch. After all, the Hucker was designed as a custom jump sail expressly for (Sailworks employee) Dale, and was later marketed for public sale essentially as an afterthought. It's not that "only Dale can ride it", more like "its big-air advantage is discarded by those who don't get big air and/or who detune it for easier and friendlier handling". Because its higher COE loads the board nose more, it's best suited to today's higher-volume boards and their fuller noses. Of course, one could detune it to lower the CG and ride it with an old-school low-volume "Gorge board", but ... why?

Mike \m/
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the OP rides in OHIO
maybe Lake Erie which is going to have some epic days, compareable to the Colombia.. naw... not for this size range

we know nothing about
a.sailor weight
b.board in use
c.abilities

what we know is he wants a high performance sail to replace a superlite Ezzy which is a 6.5, the larger sail in use is a 8m Retro

perhaps suggest :: like some other replys to a alternative option instead of negative comments

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tabou~R2 wrote:

1. the OP rides in OHIO

2. we know nothing about
a.sailor weight
b.board in use
c.abilities

3. what we know is he wants a high performance sail

4. instead of negative comments


1. I don't see how the location -- other than maybe in ocean waves -- matters significantly with 6.5 to 8.0 wind.

2. Exactly ... so how could we recommend he buy a special-purpose sail designed first and foremost for hucking -- thus the name -- huge air?

3. One man's "high-performance sail" is a 7-cammed, double-luffed, unluffable, rigid-masted, monofilm wing with a foam-foiled luff sleeve on an oversized tubular 100% carbon-titanium mast; another's is a bomber, 100% scrim, camless, totally luffable, pure wave sail on a bullet-proof 70% carbon RDM. We gotta define terms if we're going to communicate clearly.

4. I saw no negative comments, just honest opinions and facts, all quite positive ... to the extent facts can take sides. In fact, I'd say a sail that can be tuned to behave like a Saturn V lunar rocket or a 1965 Pontiac GTO is quite a positive accomplishment, in terms of both application and wind range. After all, it’s Sailworks literature, not I, who first pegged the Hucker as “pitchy” (i.e., high COE). It’s a design feature, not a criticism. If I had anything negative to say about them, I'd say it to Bruce, not the public.

Mike \m/


Last edited by isobars on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:


I don't see .....

Mike \m/

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, now THAT's useful and productive ... and positive.
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jmuzilla



Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Lake Erie Reply with quote

I just want to clarify that the sailing conditions on Lake Erie are much better than Yets and Khardin have written. It really depends on the length of the season and the flexibility in your schedule. My season is from April to November. The best months on Lake Erie are April/May and October/November with chilly water temps. I’ve sailed 3.7, 4.2, 5.0 in each of the last 3 years. We have a 200 mile fetch and the conditions are as good as Arlington.

As for the sail choice, I’m partial to the Ezzy line. They have a great range, nice feel and are bomb proof when you venture out in the good conditions.

Jon
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