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Another Petition to sign re keeping CA State Parks open
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:
hodad?


Hoodat?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:

hodad?


Hoodat? said isobars.

I say, you goofball!
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D-wo



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it odd and troubling that one would blame Mexican immigrants for our fiscal woes. It is so typical of knee-jerk reactionaries to scapegoat those who are defenseless and voiceless. Our immigrant population lives on the bottom of our economic pyramid - undertaking the highest marginal level of disutility (work) per unit of utility (economic gain). Consumers across the spectrum and business owners (agriculture, food service, textiles etc.) have been served well by this immigrant workforce. To deny people who toil in our fields and factories health care is, in my opinion, unjust.

I agree that our current "don't ask, don't tell, just get to work" system is fairly bankrupt. However, until we admit our need for an immigrant work population, and accept they have rights as individuals, we cannot fairly address the issue. Don't think for a moment that the existence our undocumented workforce is completely supply driven. There are plenty of California businesses that depend on the so-called "illegal immigrants."

David

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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-wo wrote:
I find it odd and troubling that one would blame Mexican immigrants for our fiscal woes. It is so typical of knee-jerk reactionaries to scapegoat those who are defenseless and voiceless. Our immigrant population lives on the bottom of our economic pyramid - undertaking the highest marginal level of disutility (work) per unit of utility (economic gain). Consumers across the spectrum and business owners (agriculture, food service, textiles etc.) have been served well by this immigrant workforce. To deny people who toil in our fields and factories health care is, in my opinion, unjust.

I agree that our current "don't ask, don't tell, just get to work" system is fairly bankrupt. However, until we admit our need for an immigrant work population, and accept they have rights as individuals, we cannot fairly address the issue. Don't think for a moment that the existence our undocumented workforce is completely supply driven. There are plenty of California businesses that depend on the so-called "illegal immigrants."

David


What about cutting 20% of all government burocrats jobs and making those fat white lazy ass pigs pick lettuce for a while. Why do immigrants have to pick lettuce? Let all the laid off government slobs lose weight and get out in the sun for a while, and let the immigrants go back to their countries to vote their lousy governments into the fields.

The parks could use 20% less guys driving around in $50,000 trucks all day. The DMV could use 20% less fatties screwing up peoples days. My kids don't need 2 sets of books because they're too heavy to take home every night. We have more people in prison in this country than China and the Soviet Union combined. Can't some of the pot dealers run the prisons for early release?

Lest I sound like a red-neck, my wife is a Mexican immigrant and that makes my kids La Raza. They are sick of what's happening in America as much as I am.
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jp5



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
What about cutting 20% of all government burocrats jobs...


Yes why not let go high paid bureaucrats instead of low paid teachers?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-wo wrote:
I find it odd and troubling that one would blame Mexican immigrants for our fiscal woes.


I have listened to hundreds of hours of debate on this issue, and have yet to hear even one person blame even the illegal, let alone the legal, border crossers. The problem is the politicians who use tens of billions of taxpayer dollars -- much of it from legal immigrants -- to support the illegal gatecrashers who refuse to get in line and play by the rules their legal brethren did. I speak up when people break in line at a movie or restaurant, and I'll speak up when illegal aliens screw their legal counterparts and everyone else. ILLEGAL aliens alone cost CA taxpayers $9B-$10.5B every year due to nanny state thinking, and Arnold wants the other 49 states to bail him/you out. That's wrong, and rational people know that. You people are welcome to think and behave as liberals, but not to demand that others pay for the consequences.

Mike
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D-wo



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:


What about cutting 20% of all government burocrats jobs and making those fat white lazy ass pigs pick lettuce for a while. Why do immigrants have to pick lettuce? Let all the laid off government slobs lose weight and get out in the sun for a while, and let the immigrants go back to their countries to vote their lousy governments into the fields.

The parks could use 20% less guys driving around in $50,000 trucks all day. The DMV could use 20% less fatties screwing up peoples days. My kids don't need 2 sets of books because they're too heavy to take home every night. We have more people in prison in this country than China and the Soviet Union combined. Can't some of the pot dealers run the prisons for early release?

Lest I sound like a red-neck, my wife is a Mexican immigrant and that makes my kids La Raza. They are sick of what's happening in America as much as I am.




If you can get Park Rangers to pick lettuce then I might stand behind you. I was evicted from my home by State Parks. Yes they owned the land and I don't argue that. But today my former home is a big construction wasteland because state parks doesn't have the money to finish the project. Myself and my neighbors were paying rent. State Parks evicted us and then claimed to have the money to convert the area into a campground. They didn't and now everybody loses. There are no plans to restart the project and current beach access is worse than before. Let me restate - they owned the land, they probably had the right to evict us, but was their decision prudent? No. (I could write pages on this.) They gave up rental income (1-2 million a year) to spend money and all the citizens of the state have gotten so far is a big pile of gravel.

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D-wo



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
D-wo wrote:
I find it odd and troubling that one would blame Mexican immigrants for our fiscal woes.


I have listened to hundreds of hours of debate on this issue, and have yet to hear even one person blame even the illegal, let alone the legal, border crossers. The problem is the politicians who use tens of billions of taxpayer dollars -- much of it from legal immigrants -- to support the illegal gatecrashers who refuse to get in line and play by the rules their legal brethren did. I speak up when people break in line at a movie or restaurant, and I'll speak up when illegal aliens screw their legal counterparts and everyone else. ILLEGAL aliens alone cost CA taxpayers $9B-$10.5B every year due to nanny state thinking, and Arnold wants the other 49 states to bail him/you out. That's wrong, and rational people know that. You people are welcome to think and behave as liberals, but not to demand that others pay for the consequences.

Mike



I do agree that all immigration should be above board. Having folks live here without papers doesn't serve anyone except employers who want to an easily exploited workforce. I've heard Canada actually flies in agricultural workers from Mexico. It seems we could create a system to hire immigrant labor that is legal and mutually beneficial to the workers and the employers.

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spanker_jeep



Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 404
Location: Outer Richmond District.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
When I send boilerplate messages like this, I change both the topic and message to add variety to the message. I also try to shorten the message. Thus:

Park Closures Insult Legitimate Users

I cannot comprehend why any government would spend $9B per year on social services for illegal gate-crashers yet deny the use of natural resources to the legal immigrants and natives who provided the $9B. This mindset has significantly reduced my recreation trips to CA, and is a major factor in the record-breaking flood of prosperous individuals and companies from CA.

Signed



I know it makes me sick! What about the state employees getting cut. Sad man. DMVs are not even open on certain days. Lame bro.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D-wo wrote:
It seems we could create a system to hire immigrant labor that is legal and mutually beneficial to the workers and the employers.


The old white guy who wanted to do just that was not elected.

Mike
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