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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20939
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 Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| adywind wrote: | | I'm starting to doubt a bit the wisdom behind the wave thrusters. I can see the usefulness in FSWs-to slow things down a bit in realy rough stuff, to eliminate tail-walk and provide tight turning on a wave or in a jibe, but on a wave board with a lot of rocker already? |
If my goal in "really rough stuff" was to slow the board down, I'd just use a fin with a huge slot, buy a slow board, rig smaller, sheet in less, use a bigger/fatter/wavier/doggier fin, bolt on a bunch of 6" fins, tie a sweat shirt to my fin, etc. But I much prefer to ADD comfort, control, and tracking rather than SUBTRACT top speed so I can revel in the additional speed, excitement, and altitude potential of a hull designed to achieve those goals even at high speed in virtually any terrain including the Gorge's all-too-common head-high chopswell.
The cheap way to achieve that is to buy an older, narrower wave board ... the fast ones which all but displaced the slower '80s and early '90s bananas from the mainland U.S. market. They're very plentiful and virtually free, at least in my neck of the woods, and I absolutely love their performance in my locale.
One expensive way is to buy one of Naish's 2014/15 Wave boards and see if you still think thrusters don't belong on a wave board. Its tiny little thrusters let me use a MUCH smaller -- maybe 50% smaller in area -- main fin for less drag overall than a bigger solo fin.
I realize that you unfortunate stiffs whose waves are separated by wiiiiiide flats have to worry about outrunning the wave lest you get stuck in the flats. Here on Da River, however, as on most purely wind-generated swell, one wave's face morphs into the next one's backside. Thus outrunning one swell just puts us on the next downwind ramp, so it's all good. i.e., diving down one swell's face flat out and sheeted in gives us more options, including a cutback at its bottom or halfway down its face or downwind air off the backside of its predecessor.
Speed good.
Comfort and control while keeping the speed even better.
When I get too old to manage high speeds in ruff stuff, THEN I'll buy a slow board ... or just tie a sweatshirt onto my fin. |
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ok what would have been if Naish have put 3 fins on the Starship and extended the range with 2 additional smaller sizes instead of the Global? Maybe also flattening the deck of the smallest 2 or 3 sizes for more surfy feel aswell?!
PS: Naish seem to not offer a quad, are they? I thought their Waves are quads! So they don't like quads but every body else does, strange! Then the question is what's better for pure wave riding quads or thrusters? And which ones are more all around? |
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westender
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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After reading these threads the last couple months, I never realized how friggin complicated this sport is. The advice from some of the junior members is more bewildering than our equipment choices.  |
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| westender wrote: | | After reading these threads the last couple months, I never realized how friggin complicated this sport is. The advice from some of the junior members is more bewildering than our equipment choices. |
Having random thoughts?! You are not helping  Wrong section! |
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westender
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: Portland / Gorge
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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 No? I'm simple minded and bewildered. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20939
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| adywind wrote: | Ok what would have been if Naish have put 3 fins on the Starship and extended the range with 2 additional smaller sizes instead of the Global? Maybe also flattening the deck of the smallest 2 or 3 sizes for more surfy feel aswell?!
PS: Naish seem to not offer a quad, are they? I thought their Waves are quads! So they don't like quads but every body else does, strange! Then the question is what's better for pure wave riding quads or thrusters? And which ones are more all around? |
I dunno.
What I DO know is that the first newer board I've tried since my 2008 Naish Pro1111 Wave that came even close to meeting my personal performance criteria was the 2014 Naish Wave. Maybe that's because it is INTENDED as a retro, narrower wave board with an even narrower tail. I've sailed three sizes so far, got only a few quick sessions in between knee constraints and the onset of winter, and am dying to really wring it out this spring with a fairly healthy knee. I see no need for more fins on it, and was persuaded by personal trials, by shop experts who get to sail many brands and styles of boards, and by iW comments that a tri suits my sailing goals and venues better than a quad.
It's all highly personal. Just for one example, everybody including myself says quads require learning and using whole different techniques. I'm an old dog; I have time for getting better at what I do, but not so much for new tricks/techniques altogether.
Then there's the little issue of owning and using stacks and stacks of boards that all turn off the back foot; I'd hate to need to look down and count fins each time I wanted to slash or jibe to make sure I used the right technique. 
The Starship was nice, but just not as loose and exciting as I prefer. And within reason I don't care about deck shape, as it's not in the water. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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You know, the idea of always injecting the Gorge and its conditions on a thread about waveboards and sailing in the surf is a bit tiring. Don't get me wrong, the Gorge is unique and exciting spot for windsurfing, but it's nothing like sailing in the waves, especially when getting out through the tough lineup in less than stout winds.
Lots of fins, and the amount of drag they create, really isn't a liability in a real waveriding venue. Multi-fin boards and 3 and 4 batten sails to match with them are designed principally for the wave environment, particularly in down the line conditions. For those sailing in lightwind and more onshore conditions, higher volume FSW boards and their somewhat flatter rockerlines offer a way for sailors to take advantage of the waves in less than world class conditions. The perfect slog and catch vehicles, but still flexible enough to take advantage of B&J conditions when the wind comes up in the absence of a swell.
I guess if one had the ideal quiver for waves, it would include a couple of quads, maybe a twinser, and a couple of FSW tri-fins that are convertible to a single fin. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20939
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| westender wrote: | | After reading these threads the last couple months, I never realized how friggin complicated this sport is. The advice from some of the junior members is more bewildering than our equipment choices. |
Yup. Makes me wonder who's on the right track ... if there is such a thing ... the folks who just buy stuff they love and sail it, or the folks who feel compelled to make dramatic changes frequently.
Ooh, ooh ... I know. BOTH are on the right track, if they enjoy the process and the results. What it really says, IMO, is that there's a LOT of room in this sport to fulfill a huge variety of needs and interests. Dick never had time to actually ... you know ... windsurf, but he had the spare time to open and manage WSing shops and sailing schools outside his real job. Jeff and Marty built their own frigging boards despite ready access to the hundreds of different off-the-shelf boards shaped by the best shapers in the world. Mike researches and buys hand-picked boards by the vanfull, keeps and sails the cream of the crop, and will flood that particular market niche when he gets so old he has to take up kiting. Ken bought new kit every year but never used it. One Dale stood on shore all day every day repeating his sail choice mantra: "I don't knowwwwww.....". Another Dale would probably rather be in an F-16 because it flies a little bit faster and higher.
But they're all having fun, and that's the right track. |
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks swchandler for expressing my own thoughts BUT in a very polite way. It seems my ideas are not as wild as some perceive them. I feel compelled now to repeat my question, because the original one got completely drowned in Gorge-centric rhetoric.
Do thruster wave boards have a wide application outside the Gorge and wouldn't the FSWs with 3 fins below 100L do the same job, if not better -combining nearly the same wave riding experience but better b&j -leaving quads/twins for pure waveriding?
PS: Yep, I'm not a lunatic! And actually I'm very late with my idea-Goya have implemented it already: they have 5 boards in the product line: quad-wave riding; thruster -the One- their former FSW-b&j/wave, freestyle, freerace and beginner. Nice and simple 
http://goyawindsurfing.com/boards/items/y2015/one/ |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20939
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| Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| adywind wrote: | | compelled now to repeat my question, because the original one got completely drowned in Gorge-centric rhetoric. |
Lessee ...
You asked me a direct question about boards I've ridden.
The primary model I discussed is a WAVE board.
It bears and supports the name and reputation of Robby Naish.
It's so damned good that I eagerly spent more on that model than on the last 40 other WS boards I bought ... collectively ... no exaggeration.
I expressly said I couldn't answer your question in its totality but offered instead what I could about those very boards and their relation to quads in general ... which term you just repeated.
And you get snotty, even though it's not your damned thread.
Is it my fault you can't extrapolate my response to your question of me just because my local waves MAY not be shaped just like yours are? Does the fact that NAISH chose tris over quads for their WAVE board tell you nothing?
Who implied your ideas were wild? Do you feel, as many here seem to, that just because someone else offers additional thoughts on a subject implies your ideas are "wild"? Are they not allowed to contribute just because they didn't speak first?
FSW's are different from wave boards, and thus have their own relative pros and cons in any venue, especially the "general" case you inquired about. But I guess Westender, I, and any anyone else who sails in the Gorge are not qualified to address that because we sail in the Gorge.
Your loss ... and our gain in that we now have no further desire to add our two cents or five minutes to your dilemma. |
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