myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
New OS for legacy Classic iwindsurf
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Northwest USA & Canada
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20818

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Open a graph of the wind at any specific site. Read the list of options to the left of the graph. One of them is the Radar and Satellite Map. Click on it.
I use it to see whether a burst of wind is caused by a nearby squall or storm. If so, I know it will quickly change direction and/or die off.

BenSailFaster wrote:
What I miss from even the Classic version is the location of the cloud line. That’ pretty critical information to lose.
WHAT HAPPENED?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karloe



Joined: 05 Dec 2000
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the new Iwindsurf, go to the map page, then under more maps on the left click on Satellite / Clouds. What isobars is describing is on the classic IW.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
30knotwind



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 237
Location: White Salmon, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The attached page is why I use classic iW. The list on the new website is too cluttered and it has been very difficult to get sensors added to the list. The page attached shows me where the wind is very quickly and the alphabetical list allows me to go straight to a site if I can't find it on the list sorted by windspeed.
Thanks,
Chris



6-23-2022 9-56-59 AM.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  189.88 KB
 Viewed:  1624 Time(s)

6-23-2022 9-56-59 AM.png



_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.30knotwind.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jgda



Joined: 19 Jul 1999
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:58 am    Post subject: Maybe folks don’t use wap because they don’t know about it Reply with quote

Like isobars, I only use wap, especially when I am in the gorge. I have quick links set up for wind and pressure and with spotty cell coverage at times, this works great.

I have run into many iwindsurf users that when they see me using it ask, “What is that? Cool! How do I get that?”.

I wonder if there is less use of WAP because folks just are not aware of it. Maybe a little advertising? I would hate to see it go away.

I program computers, and in the end, I think unless one is really into meteorology, most end users just want the interface to be quick and easy to use with wind speed, direction, and pressure. One can look up to see what is happening with the clouds.

In this regard, I find that the forecasts this year are more technical and wordy and less focused on if, when, and where the wind will be. I think that is what most of us want. I think Temira does a good job of keeping it simple. I don’t really care about short waves, and blocking fronts etc. I just want to know if I should make the drive or plan something else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 1089
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the Best features of classic was removed.
And that was it recorded each entry on the graph and you could
hover over it and get a text box with the actual degrees of direction
and the average and gust conditions going back in history.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 1089
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the Best features of classic was removed.
And that was it recorded each entry on the graph and you could
hover over it and get a text box with the actual degrees of direction
and the average and gust conditions going back in history.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bericw



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windfind:

Thank you for your kind reply to my questioning about, to be even more succinct, does x mph on a sensor now indicate potential for sailing with the same sail size as x mph used too? My question is not about any other point (e.g., how often the wind blows, whether it is windy in the morning, etc.) except, to restate again, if there is the same potential now to sail on a given sail size at the exact time when the sensor reading is x mph as back in the day. It is my limited understanding that this potential is more or less the same at gorge sailing spots to the west (e.g., Hatchery), it is not to the east (e.g., Maryhill/Wall), and it is again further north (e.g., Desert Aire, note the fancy e!).

Quoting from your reply, your "favorite sites are The Wall and The Hatch." With your old observation method at the Hatchery, you "sailed 95% of the time", and at the Wall "90% of the time I had a great day" (awesome records, stoked!). But... "Then about 12 years ago things began to change slowly." 

With respect to x mph still being x mph for sail size potential, you reference "...less steady winds... often adds a more W to WNW component to the surface winds so the wind is more concentrated on the Oregon side that mid river or WA side... add to the gust factor but not much to the average wind. So 24G36 is not the same as a decade ago. ie. a lot more gusts... more up and down winds as turbulence lifts the wind from the water."

Thank you again for your reply and the causes you identified relative to those  changes. I am interested that you responded "No" for my guess option "7), Altered conditions around the sailing location. E.g., construction of wind-affecting structures changing flow characteristics..."

As you noted, "about 12 years ago things began to  change", I kind of thought so too, coinciding with the construction around the river? It was easy for me to decide that it just was what it was so I had better try harder. Given this thread and your "No", I have now taken a quick look at the internet to see if there is any indication for "wind-affecting structures changing flow characteristics" in addition to what you have observed and noted for weather changes.

One can find articles such as this one from 2010 (approximately 12 years ago), "Wind farms growing along Columbia River Gorge"

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/wind-farms-growing-along-columbia-river-gorge-1/

A map of wind farms along the gorge can be found at, https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/or#maps , included here as Figure 1.

Further, in the immortal words of Nate Diaz, "I'm not surprised, MF'ers!" (e.g., see Nate Diaz - I'm Not Surprised REMIX ft. Conor McGregor https://youtu.be/3HcLRoQn3nU ) to find that there is a significant amount of literature related to determining the most effective locations, spacings, etc. for wind farm design. Porté-Agel et al. (2020), https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10546-019-00473-0 , appears to provide a summary of information of interest relative to wind-affecting structures changing flow characteristics for the eastern gorge. To quote the obvious "The presence of a wind turbine affects the airflow both upwind and downwind of the turbine..."

Figure 4 from Porté-Agel et al. (2020), included here as Figure 2, provides simulation (assumed) vertical results of the effect of a wind turbine on the time-averaged streamwise velocity for different surface roughnesses. The downstream distance shown is potentially approximately 2 km with "Each turbine's supporting tower must be 265–280 feet (81–85 m) tall; combined with wind turbine blades, each unit may be 400–445 feet (122–136 m) in height. The turbines may be aligned in up to 30 corridors 500 feet (150 m) wide" (e.g., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biglow_Canyon_Wind_Farm#Certification ). Porté-Agel et al. (2020) state "Satellite measurements... and numerical simulations... have shown that wind-farm wakes can have non-negligible effects on the surface-layer wind speed, which retains a 2% deficit at downwind distances from the farm in the range of 5–20 km, depending on the ambient stability and wind-farm size." 

Figure 14 from Porté-Agel et al. (2020), included here as Figure 3, provides interesting comparison of prototypic photograph and simulation for a wind farm for considerstion of potential effects. The simulation length scales are normalized by an impeller diameter of 80 m, contours in m/s are the time-averaged streamwise velocity component at hub level.

The downwind distances can be exacerbated by topography, with Porté-Agel et al. (2020) summarizing that "when the turbine is moved from far upstream towards the hilltop, the wake recovery rate increases up until a certain distance to the hilltop (region I in Fig. 18a). After this point, if we move the turbine closer to the hilltop, the recovery rate decreases (region II). This is especially clear when the turbine is placed at the hilltop, where the wake recovery rate is significantly smaller due to the adverse pressure gradient on the leeward of the hill." Fig. 18 is included here as Figure 4.

While the information summarized here focuses on mean velocity given the relative conceptual accessibility, metrics more specific to "less steady winds... gust factor... up and down winds as turbulence..."  are available in the literature. Consider Figure 1 provided here, and the farms' spacings, alignments, distances, and topography to the river relative to the literature as referenced. Are there potential contributions?

Regardless, please keep salient in mind my previously suggested option 1.

Have a great day!

Beric



20220717_092251.jpg
 Description:
Figure 1. From https://windexchange.energy.gov/states/or#maps
 Filesize:  30.22 KB
 Viewed:  1164 Time(s)

20220717_092251.jpg



20220717_092338.jpg
 Description:
Figure 2. From https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10546-019-00473-0
 Filesize:  114.39 KB
 Viewed:  1164 Time(s)

20220717_092338.jpg



20220717_092407.jpg
 Description:
Figure 3. From https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10546-019-00473-0
 Filesize:  145.04 KB
 Viewed:  1164 Time(s)

20220717_092407.jpg



20220717_092433.jpg
 Description:
Figure 4. From https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10546-019-00473-0
 Filesize:  105.3 KB
 Viewed:  1164 Time(s)

20220717_092433.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
windfind



Joined: 18 Mar 1997
Posts: 1808

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi bericw,

There is no doubt that a grid like arrangement of turbines on level ground, as seen in your imagery, can impact the wind velocity directly down stream horizontally and vertically from the farm and at a slight angle horizontally and vertically from directly down wind.

However most of the turbine farms near the Gorge are not on level ground in an orderly grid pattern like your imagery. Rather they are scattered on ridges at many different elevations hundreds of feet above the surface off river and distances of thousands of feet away from the river. You can see a sample of this in the imagery below.

This means wind weakening turbulence would be far from the surface wind on the river both horizontally and vertically.

Moreover, in the case of The Wall, the turbines would be actually weakening the WNW wind that is the issue that appears to be causing the problems on the WA side of the river. So they might actually be a help to wind qualilty.

I think the issue you describe about mph vs sail size now vs the past is pretty simple.

When the winds are steady you can give a few pumps with a smaller sail/board and get up and stay on a plane. It is getting on a plane that takes so much energy. Whereas when the wind are more UP and Down it takes if is harder to keep on a plane so you need:

1. A bigger sail or bigger board. or
2. You are watching the smallest ripples upwinds and bear off before the lull hits you. or
3. You immediately ride swell when anticipating a lull. or
4. You just sail the strongest days. or
5. You learn to foil.
6. Or a combo of the above.

I was shocked when I moved to the Gorge from the San Francisco Bay Area over 20 years ago. The Bay Area winds are often only in the upper-teens to low 20's range in the summer compared to the Gorges low to upper-20's+ winds.

BUT... I found that in the same wind velocity I had to use a bigger board and/or sail in the Gorge than the Bay. It was not something subtle. I actually could not use my smallest Bay boards in the Gorge without employing 1,2,3,4 above frequently. While in the Bay Area I just sailed.

Of course the Gorge was way more fun with the huge swell and wind.

Back then the Bay back often had 22 knot winds with infrequent lulls to 20 and a few gusts to 24. So 22 seemed like great wind. But the Gorge at 22 was not the same often with lulls to 16 and blasts to 28.

So I think the answer to your question is that the Gorge winds now has more days with unsteady winds compared to the past. So 25 knots is often not what it used to be.

And for some sites that WNW issue plus sometimes hotter walls and points near the river are the issue.

Speaking of which, see my new blog about the fire yesterday and the WNW hypothesis:

https://blog.weatherflow.com/west-coast-wind-blog-straw-bale-fire-wnw-flow-and-the-wall/

Mike Godsey
Weatherflow



GorgeWall turbines.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  225.72 KB
 Viewed:  1075 Time(s)

GorgeWall turbines.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swellride



Joined: 27 Jun 1999
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:37 pm    Post subject: My Iwindsurf works buy Ikitesurf does not function Reply with quote

1. Can you guys define these two images as to their formats (old, new, etc)?

2. I want the visual of the Iwindsurf (current wind, isobars, Forecasts) but, the similar Ikitesurf (see image) version no longer displays as the Iwindsurf compact model.

Efforts to contact Weather flow through their system (Submit a request) has failed me.

Thank you in advance!



Iwindsurf 1.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  112.8 KB
 Viewed:  946 Time(s)

Iwindsurf 1.JPG



Ikitesurf 1.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  177.1 KB
 Viewed:  946 Time(s)

Ikitesurf 1.JPG


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
windfind



Joined: 18 Mar 1997
Posts: 1808

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: My Iwindsurf works buy Ikitesurf does not function Reply with quote

Swellride wrote:
1. Can you guys define these two images as to their formats (old, new, etc)?

2. I want the visual of the Iwindsurf (current wind, isobars, Forecasts) but, the similar Ikitesurf (see image) version no longer displays as the Iwindsurf compact model.


Hi Swellride,

The image below labels the old and new versions. Both have their advantages which is why we have kept both. The Old version is easier to use and allows you to see many favorite sites a once but only a snapshot at that moment. The new version allows you to see the quality of the winds and the trend up or down plus how it compared to recent days.

You second question is more complex to answer. The old iwindsurf.com and were hand coded and each map and sensor graphic was had done. Back in those ancient times our company was called iwindsurf and on the west coast we were only covering Southern California, the San Francisco Bay Area and the Gorge. So the entire user interface was customized to meet the needs of local windsurfers.

It quickly became clear that that market was way, way to tiny to sustain a company much less expand. So we evolved into a general weather company and expanded extremely rapidly with products and devices to meet many corporate and government needs.

That means that our newer products like sailflow, datascope, windalert, new iwindsurf.com etc. have an interface that is customized to meet the needs of larger markets. Unfortunately, that also means they are more complex and not as user-friendly for windsurfers.

So that is why we have kept the ancient Classic windsurf site and recently recoded it to more current HTML standards.

One day I hope we make a new version of IW which combines the best of both interfaces. But that will take a huge growth in the wind sports market to make it feasible.

Sorry, I could not give a more satisfactory answer.

Mike Godsey
Weatherflow



Xnip2022-07-23_07-22-31.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  573.73 KB
 Viewed:  899 Time(s)

Xnip2022-07-23_07-22-31.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Northwest USA & Canada All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group