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Gun Nuts
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20815

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya got me on 1.5 items, so I'll respond despite the fact that I have never lied online and usually don't respond when falsely accused of it.

The 1.0: My "tens of millions" wag was very loosely based on the six-figure fentanyl death rate in the U.S. (your data are outdated) extrapolated worldwide, and as such was off by an order of magnitude. Maybe it's "merely" millions of lives being ended or devastated by fentanyl.

The debatable 0.5: You're right that drugs in general can't decide to kill someone, but fentanyl is unique in that it is deliberately hidden in legitimate prescription drugs by (in)human beings. U.S. citizens who would never knowingly take dangerous or recreational drugs are dying from fentanyl because China and/or the Mexican cartels are pumping it into prescription drugs you, your kids, and your parents commonly use. Some 43% of prescription drugs are laced with dangerous, often fatal, doses of fentanyl.

As I said, "gun deaths" include suicide, which don't count towards mass shootings.

In saying that Hitler, McVeigh, and the 911 terrorists can't kill anyone now, you're admitting that it's people, not their weapons, that kill.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1589

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warren Burger, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States Supreme Court, 1969-1986, said and wrote:
“The gun lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American people by special interest groups that I have seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies—the militia—would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.

https://www.insidernj.com/fraud-second-amendment/


Fraud, indeed!


Last edited by wsurfer on Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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SAS



Joined: 18 Feb 1997
Posts: 149
Location: planet earth

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Ya got me on 1.5 items, so I'll respond despite the fact that I have never lied online and usually don't respond when falsely accused of it.

The 1.0: My "tens of millions" wag was very loosely based on the six-figure fentanyl death rate in the U.S. (your data are outdated) extrapolated worldwide, and as such was off by an order of magnitude. Maybe it's "merely" millions of lives being ended or devastated by fentanyl.

The debatable 0.5: You're right that drugs in general can't decide to kill someone, but fentanyl is unique in that it is deliberately hidden in legitimate prescription drugs by (in)human beings. U.S. citizens who would never knowingly take dangerous or recreational drugs are dying from fentanyl because China and/or the Mexican cartels are pumping it into prescription drugs you, your kids, and your parents commonly use. Some 43% of prescription drugs are laced with dangerous, often fatal, doses of fentanyl.

As I said, "gun deaths" include suicide, which don't count towards mass shootings.

In saying that Hitler, McVeigh, and the 911 terrorists can't kill anyone now, you're admitting that it's people, not their weapons, that kill.


Even your reply has lies, misleading information, or mistakes:

1) You are now changing your fentanyl numbers to also include lives “devastated” by it. This allows you to make up a number based on no facts. The CDC data is for 2020. If you have good data that is newer post it with attribution.

2) “43% of prescription drugs are laced with dangerous, often fatal, doses of fentanyl” is likely not true. Fentanyl has been found in some COUNTERFEIT prescription medications sold on the street. This is not the same as being in real prescription medications. I find no data that legitimate medications contain it at a level of 43%. If you have good data that you are correct post it with attribution. I find no evidence to support this.

3) Some drug deaths are also suicides.

4) Small minded people can’t understand that shootings require BOTH a firearm and a shooter. Without both, there would be no shootings. I am not “admitting that it's people, not their weapons, that kill.” I am admitting that it’s people with guns who can kill. No guns, no shootings.

While Hitler, McVeigh, and the 911 terrorists can't kill anyone now, there are many similarly minded people alive who can and will commit murder, and many of them will use a gun to do so.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3361

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
despite the fact that I have never lied online and usually don't respond when falsely accused of it


isobars wrote:
Influenza is a much more deadly disease. Get your priorities straight, fearmonger.


You stand corrected.

Coachg
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3361

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Want to reduce crime in general, especially gun violence (NOT including suicide; that's a personal choice issue)? STOP ELECTING BLEEDING HEART FAR LEFT POLITICIANS.


Really? And do what, start electing FAR RIGHT POLITICIANS? Let's see; 8 of the top 10 states with the highest murder rates are red states. States with the highest firearm mortality rates are overwhelmingly red & states with the lowest are overwhelmingly blue.

Please explain to me your logic on how higher murder rates & gun related deaths is supposed to be better?

Coachg
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pointless trying to argue with a person who has a tenuous grasp on the truth. I realised that, after a couple of ding dongs not long after I joined the forum in 2009.

The biggest and most preposterous nonsense I noted from Isobars was a throwaway dismissive claim he once made in the windsurfing forum, when he stated that, as a magazine tester, he had ridden longboards for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF MILES, but had given up using them years ago.

Just try doing the maths! (Which telephone box did he use, I wondered, for changing into his Superman costume?)
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10424

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars has no grasp of the truth at all. However, when it comes to his grasp and use of dishonesty and lies, he's a specialist that eagerly promotes them to the fullest.
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SAS



Joined: 18 Feb 1997
Posts: 149
Location: planet earth

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
It's pointless trying to argue with a person who has a tenuous grasp on the truth. I realised that, after a couple of ding dongs not long after I joined the forum in 2009.



I totally understand this. While my responses may be addressed to him, I realize that I won't change his warped mind. I do it so that other readers of this forum will see truth and facts rather than lies (always called mistakes by him).
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4195

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just Isobars and guns. At least half of the members of the GOP have completely lost grip with reality. There seems to be little ability to reason or respond to actual facts.

I grew up in what is now Trump land...Western SoDak. It's Wyoming East, essentially. When I go back to visit, the place has changed so dramatically since Trump was elected. Folks are unfriendly and angry. I can pass for a local so I don't believe it is anger directed at me. It's just anger.

I hunted and target practiced as a young person. And, yes, I was a member of the NRA because that organization sponsored gun safety classes necessary to get a hunting license. But, the NRA is not that organization any longer. I, also, collected firearms and took weapons training as an adult. I'm more proficient with a weapon than anyone I know besides someone in law enforcement. In Isobar language "I've shot millions of rounds of ammo". That said. I feel, strongly, that most folks shouldn't have a firearm much less carry one concealed. Too many guns owned by too many people who have no idea of what these tools are capable of doing. Too many gun owners will not take the time, nor spend the money, to become properly trained. And, the types of weapons available are not about sport or hunting. They are tools for the use of killing...not for self defense.

It really is time that we get away from this, relatively recent, definition of the applicability of the 2 nd Amendment with respect to gun ownership. This definition was fabricated by the Conservative SC of the last 30 years. It is not rooted in centuries of law.

I don't hold out much hope that the needle will be moved on removing guns from our lives. The GOP is full of the fact free idiots that are taking over the government with any method they can find. It's gonna get uglier before it gets better.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10424

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead, thanks for the thoughtful post. I can only wish that more folks understood things like you do.

What worries me is the kind of folks that you experienced in SD. Unfortunately, they are everywhere. Folks feeding on a different stream of news, and captured by the folks promoting deception and lies. We can readily see that here. There are dark forces at work almost everywhere.

Going forward, I can only hope for a more enlightened America. One that really understands what we must accomplish as a nation to stay ahead, and yet, still remain free.

I think that what happens in November could spell our doom.
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