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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | | techno900, it seems that you are leaving an important concern out of your comments. How do we view and treat those that refuse to be vaccinated. Do you favor protective restrictions, and do you feel that mandatory testing should be required in employment, schooling and societal activities for the unvaccinated? Also, regarding restrictions, they could be governmental or private in origin. Would government (federal, state or local) restrictions be acceptable? |
What's your game? I simply state how I made my decision to be vaccinated based upon available information. "leaving important concerns out of your comments". Please, your antagonistic approach is pitiful.
At this point, how I feel about the issues you suggest is mixed and I see no reason to elaborate. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | 4. consumers can judge when treatments (or the type of treatment) offer advantages over non treatments.
I believe that they do not share all the data regarding the potential negatives |
4. No, they can't. Our current administration deliberately delayed access to treatment for most of a year. "If you have Covid symptoms, just go home and hunker down" [apparently until you recover or die] as though treatment either doesn't work, or doesn't need to be initiated within a few days to do any good.
"I believe ... "? Are you not aware that the FDA formaly requested a 75 YEAR DELAY in releasing Covid Vax data? It took a federal judge to squash the FDA's demands. Google FDA 75 years. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | All very interesting, but here is the way I see it.
1. No vaccination = risk of covid (21%) and possibly death for a small percentage (.26%).
2. Get vaccinated with all three shots = a possibility of an adverse reaction and for a very, very small percentage, death. But, the chances of a bad case of covid or death from covid is greatly reduced compared to the unvaccinated.
3. My logical deduction is that the risk of an adverse or deadly reaction from the vaccination is FAR less than catching covid and possibly dying from the virus.
4. Every medical treatment or vaccination has risks, but with due diligence, consumers can judge when treatments (or the type of treatment) offer advantages over non treatments.
However, it’s reasonable to be a skeptic when the government is selling covid vaccinations because I believe that they do not share all the data regarding the potential negatives, or if they do, they under sell it so as not to discourage the minions from choosing vaccination. |
Techno--you make four solid and rational points. Why then pivot to paranoia?
Covid, even with the lower death rate of omicron and better treatment, is devastating our economy and our schools. The research shows that vaccination leads to a much lower rate of infection and a better outcome, by far. Vaccine resistance increases the pools of infection that result in breakthrough infections and a much higher risk of death in the unvaccinated. People who make their living selling supplements and scaring people are spreading disinformation. Meanwhile, other research shows that lingering infections in those with weakened immune systems is the leading pathway to mutations that make the virus better able to evade the immune system. About 850,000 are dead and the count will surely be over a million--a number scoffed at by conservatives when the pandemic started. What rational role does fear of a government trying to put out the fire serve? |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14879
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | techno900 wrote: | 4. consumers can judge when treatments (or the type of treatment) offer advantages over non treatments.
I believe that they do not share all the data regarding the potential negatives |
4. No, they can't. Our current administration deliberately delayed access to treatment for most of a year. "If you have Covid symptoms, just go home and hunker down" [apparently until you recover or die] as though treatment either doesn't work, or doesn't need to be initiated within a few days to do any good.
"I believe ... "? Are you not aware that the FDA formaly requested a [b]75 YEAR DELAY in releasing Covid Vax data? It took a federal judge to squash the FDA's demands. Google FDA 75 years[/b]. |
Was that the trump administration? seems he wants everything including his taxes, people's testimonies taken or given and so on released in 75 years.
_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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techno900,
Seems like I hit a live hot wire with my earlier post. The issue was something that you didn't acknowledge in your post, and I can't believe how unsettled you got with some added questions about circumstances that we all face right now in society.
I was only bringing up the issue of the unvaccinated, and how folks might or should handle that. I was looking for your thoughts. Whether you believe it or not, not everyone is OK with irresponsible unvaccinated folks infiltrating their environment with abandon.
Maybe this is a topic that you can't handle. Right wing folks like to play the victim these days and scream bloody murder about almost anything. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | techno900,
Seems like I hit a live hot wire with my earlier post. The issue was something that you didn't acknowledge in your post, and I can't believe how unsettled you got with some added questions about circumstances that we all face right now in society.
I was only bringing up the issue of the unvaccinated, and how folks might or should handle that. I was looking for your thoughts. Whether you believe it or not, not everyone is OK with irresponsible unvaccinated folks infiltrating their environment with abandon.
Maybe this is a topic that you can't handle. Right wing folks like to play the victim these days and scream bloody murder about almost anything. |
"Hit a live hot wire" - Hardly!
Why don't you go ahead and answer all of your own questions first, and then I will respond in like? |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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It doesn't surprise me that you would avoid offering an opinion.
Society is already establishing prerequisites in many venues, including employment, by requiring proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test to do many things. Frankly, I don't have a problem at all with that, and I think that has been clear in my past comments. The lack of cooperation on such an important health issue does have consequences. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought - Those that get vaccinated and those that choose not to get vaccinated, both can catch covid and pass it on to others, which leads to the questions...
Is an unvaccinated person more likely to catch covid than a vaccinated person? Obviously yes, at least until Omicron came along. Now, probably still true, but with all the people catching Omicron while being vaccinated, who knows.
Once you have covid, is an unvaccinated person more, less or just as likely to pass on the virus as a vaccinated person? I don't know the answer, but let's assume that it's "just as likely". If that is true, an unvaccinated person is just as likely to spread the virus as a vaccinated person, so who is the bad guy? A sick vaccinated person or a sick unvaccinated person? Assuming the unvaccinated person was/is more likely to catch covid in the first place, then that suggests that they would be more culpable for spreading the virus.
In addition, is a bad case of covid more virulent/infectious than a mild case, regardless of the specific virus/strain?
I haven't researched any of this, but just some things to think about. interesting to know. |
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MikeLaRonde
Joined: 11 Jun 2001
Posts: 768
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Moved
Last edited by MikeLaRonde on Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:58 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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