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Nutty California
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Now the taxable amount for the four units totals $2 million. Compare that to the $700K taxable value before the sale and conversion.


I have to agree with Mac here Techno. If you buy a house that originally sold for $700,000 twenty years ago for $1.5 million then Prop 13 says the new tax rate will be based on $1.5 million. If you turn around and sell it for $2 million then Prop 13 says the new tax rate will be based on $2 million. How is applying Prop 13 to the sale price of a home trying to get around Prop 13? By your logic every house sold in CA is trying to get around Prop 13 by applying Prop 13.

Coachg
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, your flight of fantasy from a trashy right wing opinion piece is laughable. Please pardon us for not grabbing our pitchforks and joining your parade.

After tomorrow's election here in California, I thinking that you will need to console your brother in his misery. After 22 million dollars wasted, Republicans suffer another humiliation in the Golden State.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
techno900 wrote:
Now the taxable amount for the four units totals $2 million. Compare that to the $700K taxable value before the sale and conversion.


I have to agree with Mac here Techno. If you buy a house that originally sold for $700,000 twenty years ago for $1.5 million then Prop 13 says the new tax rate will be based on $1.5 million. If you turn around and sell it for $2 million then Prop 13 says the new tax rate will be based on $2 million. How is applying Prop 13 to the sale price of a home trying to get around Prop 13? By your logic every house sold in CA is trying to get around Prop 13 by applying Prop 13.

I should add the "parking" issue with this new Bill 9. Nothing like taking a single family home and converting it into 4 to 8 units with no requirements for parking. Some streets will get very crowded with street parking. The bill will no doubt add some housing, but at what cost?

Coachg


The example that I presented was based upon my own conclusion and no other source. The example was a $500K home at the beginning, not $700K. The $700K would be the taxable value after 20 years because of Prop 13.

So, if the same owner keeps the property and does nothing after 20 years, he pays taxes based upon $700K. Now with Senate Bill 9, that $1.5 million property- value after 20 years (taxed at $700K) could become worth $2 million plus if sub dived, and would be taxed at that $2 million value, not $700K. A NICE TAX BOOST FOR GOVERNMENT. This is a way to sidestep Prop 13 to increase property taxes.

You said:
Quote:
By your logic every house sold in CA is trying to get around Prop 13 by applying Prop 13.


Senate Bill 9 encourages property turnover by developers, which boosts tax revenues. Prop. 13 discourages relocations in Calif. If folks have owned the same property for a long time, and they decide to down size, taxes will go up.

Thanks for the only reasonable response, the others won't concede the nuttiness of Calif.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't have to concede anything. (e.g., The sun comes up in the east whether they admit it or not.)

First, they're like frogs tossed in the kettle when the water was a nice, comfortable 72 degrees. Now that it's boiling, they don't know the difference. They actually think that Newsome and the rest of the CA Dems are normal, and that the rest of the country lives under the same insanity. (Hint: We do NOT. Personal freedoms, including the right to eat a GD sammich in peace or travel freely between states, are God-given and constitutionally acknowledged, not privileges we must earn, buy, or get elected to.) "Progressive", my ass. Most of them don't even know they live in an ever-tightening feudal system that harks back to the Middle Ages.

Second, they have no clue what I'm talking about because they don't watch any unbiased or conservative news. They don't see the 212 degree thermometer reading because they're already well-done, and they can't comprehend the giant leap (but dismaying erosion) in mankind's individual and collective independence east of their eastern border. They pay an enormous price for their nice weather; I'd rather buy a coat and live more freely. (At least I recognize, admit, and so far tolerate my governor's insanity, but not under any delusions; his lunacy is filtered somewhat by more rational thinkers at my end of the state.)

techno900 wrote:
the others won't concede the nuttiness of Calif.
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Prop. 13 discourages relocations in Calif. If folks have owned the same property for a long time, and they decide to down size, taxes will go up.
Thanks for the only reasonable response, the others won't concede the nuttiness of Calif.

If you are 55+, you can transfer your existing property tax assessment to a new home, prop 19 is the latest addition to this.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of nutty....I know no rethug will agree, but how about a system where a sitting Governor can be removed by a simple majority, and then replaced by someone who gets 25% of the vote? How's that for democracy?

Pre-emptive losing whining...get used to it..
https://www.thewrap.com/scarborough-msnbc-larry-elder/


Last edited by boggsman1 on Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double down with ignorance and isobars will chime in. Let me make it simple for you Techno. I already know that xenophobia and paranoia drive your posts, not facts and analysis.

Over the past 8 years, California’s booming economy has added about 385,000 jobs per year. Housing starts have dropped to 100,000 units per year. Some have estimated that the housing deficit is 2 million units. Those are the big dials on the explosion of housing prices, and similar patterns are playing out in other cities like Seattle.

Your ignorance and disinterest in history rivals buggy whip’s. California has had a Housing Authority and Accountability Act since 1982, and a state appeal court just overruled San Mateo’s denial of an apartment building because they did not have defensible reasons.

I know that young people in California are furious that housing prices have made it impossible to live near where they work, and blame it on old people clinging to the house they bought decades ago. Folks cling to those houses because Proposition 13 means that they are subsidized in their taxes—no matter how wealthy they are. That problem, and resentment, is what is driving the politics.

Re-assessing houses to get more taxes is something you made up, or one of your loony sites planted in your impressionable mind. I deal with public infrastructure and funding, and any city manager worth their salt knows the age cohort of their citizenry, and the rate at which turnover and reassessment is happening.

But you have ignored the structural problems created by the real estate industry and their stooge, your god, Donald Trump. I’ll name the biggies.

1. As soon as a unit turns over, Proposition 13 holds down the assessment until it is sold, no matter the cost to serve. The problem starts again.

2. “Innovations” like AirBNB take units out of the rental stock, driving up costs. There are an estimated 2000 such units in Berkeley, more than enough to house the homeless population.

3. The tax structure for real estate makes it possible to hold vacant rental property for speculation, or buy a unit and let your kid live in it while going to college, and thus avoid lowering prices until the unit is rented.

Dude, you’ve been brainwashed. It didn’t take much soap.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Senate Bill 9 encourages property turnover by developers, which boosts tax revenues. Prop. 13 discourages relocations in Calif. If folks have owned the same property for a long time, and they decide to down size, taxes will go up.


This is where you inject opinion into the equation. It is your opinion that the motivation for SB 9 is to increase taxes & disregard the opinion that SB 9 is designed to address the CA housing shortage by allowing multi use properties & reducing absentee landlords. Also, with the new property tax laws if you decide to downsize you can carry your existing tax rate with you anywhere in the state. You are no longer restricted to a few counties.

Coachg
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Second, they have no clue what I'm talking about because they don't watch any unbiased or conservative news.

I love this quote. This coming from a Fox News fornicator. No, you are not getting unbiased news when you insist on using Google. Google's software knows what kind of right wing websites you visit so it takes you to sites that already support your biased opinion. But what should we expect from a man who struggled to put on & take off a boom with a Mauisail boom head, a man who admits he can not figure out how to download GoPro footage easily. Not very much.

Iso, you are the poster boy for biased, rightwing sheeple. Stop Trumping-that means lying-by trying to portray yourself as unbiased.

Coachg
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
techno900 wrote:
Senate Bill 9 encourages property turnover by developers, which boosts tax revenues. Prop. 13 discourages relocations in Calif. If folks have owned the same property for a long time, and they decide to down size, taxes will go up.


This is where you inject opinion into the equation. It is your opinion that the motivation for SB 9 is to increase taxes & disregard the opinion that SB 9 is designed to address the CA housing shortage by allowing multi use properties & reducing absentee landlords. Also, with the new property tax laws if you decide to downsize you can carry your existing tax rate with you anywhere in the state. You are no longer restricted to a few counties.

Coachg


You are correct, all of this is my opinion, and while SB 9 will bring new housing units to market, none of you are willing to interject the possible negatives as a result of it. Your next door neighbor's house becoming a 4 or 8 plex with no parking except on the street. If this was an issue that was up to the voters, how many of you would vote yes on SB 9? It would never pass if the voters had a say. Transferring taxable property value can be done, but only once.

Another opinion and another negative:
Quote:
in the near term the immediate result if SB9 passes as now written will be a BIG jump in the value/price of ALL the single-family home properties where this new development potential might be used. In the high-cost Bay Area, SB9’s passage will add at least $100,000 to the price of any feasible house/lot. And most such homes in San Francisco could see jumps from $200,000 to $400,000 (view lots, etc.).

There is no way that instant price jump in home prices is a Good Thing. It will put even more housing units financially out of the reach of today’s hopeful home buyers. And it will make those properties even more attractive to “investors” (aka “flippers”) looking to exploit the State’s housing crisis for their own personal profits.


https://48hills.org/2021/06/opinion-the-bad-things-about-wieners-housing-bill-sb9/
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