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Nutty California
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10156

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's a big surprise to the radical law and order crowd, but not all Americans are keen on having the world record in prison incarcerations. Moreover, right now many folks worry about the budget requirements for prisons surpassing those required for primary K thru 12 education.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does this tell you about the United States?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country

Jail even more say the authoritarians. I’d start with Trump.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1458

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time for everyone to go out and buy a Swiss Army knife and begin to exercise their constitutional right to commit mass murder.

RPGs are the new in vogue must have form of expressing your 2nd amendment rights!

WTF?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contrary to Trump talking points:

Quote:
2021 at 6:00 a.m. | UPDATED: June 13, 2021 at 3:15 p.m.
Regulations aimed at preventing the spread of COVID-19 did not come at the expense of California’s economy, according to a new report that found states that took a more hands-off approach to the pandemic did not see an economic boost from their limited regulation.

The findings from the UCLA Anderson Forecast are “diametrically opposed” to the narrative common among some COVID-19 regulation opponents that the public health orders undermined economic recovery, said Director Jerry Nickelsburg.

Among large states, those with strict pandemic rules performed as well and in some cases better than their laissez-faire counterparts. California’s GDP shrunk less than that of Texas and Florida in 2020, all of which outperformed the United States as a whole. Washington, which had some of the strictest pandemic restrictions in the country, had the lowest GDP loss among large states.

“In that group, you simply can’t find evidence that the economy — as measured by the shrinkage of GDP — was adversely affected by the intervention,” Nickelsburg said.



This web site lists the impact on California as 37 most severe--a pretty good score for a nutty state. https://wallethub.com/edu/state-economies-most-exposed-to-coronavirus/72631

North Carolina did slightly worse--#38. So if you like barbecue and can tolerate the smell of pig shit...

Of course North Carolina rates #32 in health care, and has a 34% obesity density--above the national average. California's rate is 26.2%. But for those who value economic growth over health, what are a few thousand heart attacks.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3974

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The 'little things' are turning San Francisco bad in a big way

Bernard Goldberg, opinion contributor

I was based in San Francisco as a correspondent with CBS News in the late 1970s. I remember that, back then, more than a few of us referred to the city as "Halloween-by-the-sea" - a good-natured nod to the city's quirkiness.

Over the years, the progressives who ran the city government would weigh in on one foreign policy matter or another, which prompted one wise guy to write that it was the only city in America with both Rice-A-Roni ("the San Francisco treat," as the TV ad jingle put it) and a foreign policy.

Just between us, I was the wise guy who wrote that.

The quirkiness added to the beauty of the place, the most beautiful city in America as far as I was concerned. But that was a long time ago. Now, San Francisco is a very dark, sad place.

It's not only the homeless people whose tents line the streets and sidewalks. It's not only that they use the sidewalks as their bathrooms - or that they're at times violent. And it's not only that the city had twice as many fatal drug overdoses as deaths attributed to the coronavirus. It's also what we used to consider "small stuff" - relatively minor infractions, such as shoplifting.

Today, San Francisco apparently is the shoplifting capital of America. According to the New York Times: "At a board of supervisors hearing [last month], representatives from Walgreens said that thefts at its stores in San Francisco were four times the chain's national average, and that it had closed 17 stores, largely because the scale of thefts had made business untenable."

Today's shoplifters don't simply steal a candy bar when no one is looking. I saw a video recently that showed a man who rode his bicycle into a San Francisco Walgreens drug store, loaded up one of those large black trash bags with everything he could get his hands on, and then hopped on his bike and rode out of the store - right past a private security guard.

According to the Times, "Brendan Dugan, the director of the retail crime division at CVS Health, called San Francisco 'one of the epicenters of organized retail crime' and said employees were instructed not to pursue suspected thieves because encounters had become too dangerous."

"We've had incidents where our security officers are assaulted on a pretty regular basis in San Francisco," Dugan said.

In case you're wondering how this could happen - in broad daylight, no less, and on what has become a regular basis - here's one great big factor: In 2014, Californians passed Proposition 47 that reclassified nonviolent theft as misdemeanors as long as the stolen goods are worth less than - wait for it! - $950.

If you pretty much decriminalize shoplifting, don't be shocked when you get more shoplifting. Thieves may have no morals but they do have a modicum of intelligence, what we like to call "street smarts." They understand that the cops almost certainly won't respond to a call about shoplifting and that if, on some outside chance, the police did show up, they'd still be in the clear. They know that they'll never spend a day behind bars for loading up a garbage bag and casually riding their bicycle out of the store.

But if Proposition 47 applies to the entire state of California, why haven't other cities in the state seen the same spike in shoplifting? What is it about San Francisco that turned it into such a mecca for shoplifters?

One reason is that San Francisco long has had a bohemian, "anything goes" mentality - but, until recently, no one thought that meant thieves could walk into a store, take what they want, and casually walk out.

Enter the city's new district attorney, who took over in January 2020 and decided not to prosecute so-called quality-of-life crimes as part of his plan, as one local news report put it, "to help the city's more disenfranchised populations."

"We will not prosecute cases involving quality-of-life crimes," the DA, Chesa Boudin, said in an interview while he was campaigning for office. "Crimes such as public camping, offering or soliciting sex, public urination, blocking a sidewalk, etc., should not and will not be prosecuted." Despite that - or maybe because of it - he was elected.

Here's a handy rule of thumb: If a top city official doesn't think quality-of-life crimes are worth pursuing, then the people of San Francisco should expect their quality of life to hit the skids. And it has.

We rightly worry about all the big things - the kind of rioting and arson we witnessed last summer that a lot of journalists called "mostly peaceful demonstrations." We worry about viruses that may kill us. We fret over our ever-expanding national debt. We worry about the prospects of war.

But the "little things" matter too. Societies can't thrive, they can't go on indefinitely, when people can urinate (and worse) on the sidewalks, or block streets, or pretend that ransacking store shelves and walking out without paying is no big deal - because it is a very big deal. Once the little things become tolerated, it's not long before bigger, bad things start to happen routinely as well.

It takes time for societies to fall apart, to crumble. Laws matter; order matters. Believing that you live in a safe place where miscreants don't run free ... that matters, too.

If you want to know what America would be like if progressives ever took over the country, just go to San Francisco and look around. But be careful. Halloween-by-the-sea has become a very scary place.

Bernard Goldberg is an Emmy and an Alfred I. duPont-Columbia University award-winning writer and journalist. He was a correspondent with HBO's "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel" for 22 years and previously worked as a reporter for CBS News and as an analyst for Fox News. He is the author of five books and publishes exclusive weekly columns, audio commentaries and Q&As on his Patreon page. Follow him on Twitter @BernardGoldberg.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4084

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno

Always ready to find a source that bashes progressives for all the ails America.

This criticism at a time where conservatives are in the middle of an all out assault on the voting rights of minorities wherever they can. Do you not see that there might be a correlation between the actions of many conservatives who desperately try to maintain the status quo and the decline of our cities? Not just San Francisco.

California is not a separate country. It is part of the US. When we have a huge portion of our population that has been kept out of the American dream for generations, it does have consequences.

Both Conservatives and Progressives are responsible for the decline of cities. Progressives, often, will try to fix something by throwing a program at it ($) or looking the other way. Conservatives, meantime, will thwart progress on equal rights (LBBT, women, minorities). Many in our country are being forced by these actions to become second class citizens. Do you think they don't recognize this? Do you think this doesn't affect how people behave?

What do you think is accomplished by your Party who seems to often say "Your vote is not as important as mine so shut up and live in poverty and silence".
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10156

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead, as always, you offer very thoughtful comments that make perfect sense, but I have to wonder whether techno900 has the mindset to understand what's really going on and how we as a country need address so many of the problems we face today. Sadly, I think that he's part of the radical right wing law and order crowd looking to grow our prison systems into the stratosphere and beyond. He is an example of how little Republicans offer today to make a better more productive and inclusive future in America.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goldberg, like many of the well paid pundits like tucker Carlson, makes buckets of money pandering to cranky old men like Techno. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15358590500296963?journalCode=rroc20

Techno, with no sense of irony, reveals that what drives modern “conservatism” is selfishness, meanness, and resentment. Never a coherent argument about what should be done, or what is going well. Sad indeed. Trump is gone, but Trumpism—and the cruelty behind it—remains a threat to democracy.

On the substantive point, it costs $81,000 each to keep a prisoner in jail in California. They come out meaner than they went in. Lock ‘em up is expensive—although we can afford it applied to the Trump family.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3974

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least a couple you mentioned the issue: Mac said:
Quote:
On the substantive point, it costs $81,000 each to keep a prisoner in jail in California. They come out meaner than they went in. Lock ‘em up is expensive—although we can afford it applied to the Trump family.


swchandler said:
Quote:
Sadly, I think that he's part of the radical right wing law and order crowd looking to grow our prison systems into the stratosphere and beyond.


So, since it's expensive to lock up criminals, the only options is to ignore the lesser crimes and let folks steal what they want as long as it's value is under $950. And how is that working for Calif? A truly nutty program!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16734
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:

So, since it's expensive to lock up criminals, the only options is to ignore the lesser crimes and let folks steal what they want as long as it's value is under $950. And how is that working for Calif? A truly nutty program!


Sigh. When you don't have an argument, make up one for your enemy and disparage it.

Techno knows nothing about crime in California, or its causes. My son-in-law works for the Oakland Police Department, and has for 8 years. He spent part of Father's Day spinning stories about murder investigations and victims on fire. Those victims are seldom completely innocent, most are in the crime life. He is involved in the active investigation of the shooting at Lake Merritt on Juneteenth--which involved two San Francisco gangs. The victim was in a gang and was only 22.

What disturbs him is the emergence of new minor criminals--gangs under 18 involved in car jacking, theft, and murder. There are two points that this makes. First, most of us think that the police should focus on the most serious crimes, and get those folks off the streets if at all possible. Second, the involvement of kids under 18 in violent crime, with no concern for bystanders, should give us some pause for the state of our society and how we deal with the children of criminals and drug addicts.

As he said, parts of East Oakland where he patrols were hotbeds of heroin dealing when he was born, and will be hotbeds of heroin when he dies, There are no easy answers--particularly from right wing media trying to scare folks like Techno.
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