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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16563
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:


If I went to a Dr. with a kidney issue and the Dr. would not lay out the possible outcomes of the treatment or the cost of the treatment, I would find another Dr.


Apparently you would start your search on a right wing web site, and only look for folks who graduated from schools that don't teach evolution, or aren't accredited.

The most bizarre comparison yet on this thread.
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1594

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possible outcomes is not what Kennedy is talking about.

The point is, you might be the asshole demanding how much heart surgery costs and demanding he or she tell you exactly how many days extra you will get to live for X amount of dollars spent on heart surgery. It’s an asshole move. It’s exactly what Kennedy did. At the end of the day you might be a cold slab in the morgue because shit happens with either doctor.

If your surgeon is good, he doesn't stick to the plan. Because the plan is to go in and see the real world. He goes in, finds other things to do and boom, you have a bigger bill, better outcome. I had an hour and 1/2 surgery planned, I was under 3 1/2 hours because he’s phenomenal at what he does. Screwed his day up. Fuck plans, it’s the effort to change things and do things right the first time that matters.


Berating someone for a precise drop in temperature X dollars spent will give is a pretty ridiculous argument. It’s an real asshole move. “So if I give you $100 dollars, what drop in temperature can I expect”? I guess you are one to say fuck heart surgery, it costs too much, shouldn’t try because he cant give me an exact quote.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16563
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buggy whips are coming back. For sure.

Quote:
arth Week has come and gone, leaving behind an ankle-deep and green-tinted drift of reports, press releases, and earnest promises from C.E.O.s and premiers alike that they are planning to become part of the solution. There were contingent signs of real possibility—if some of the heads of state whom John Kerry called on to make Zoom speeches appeared a little strained, at least they appeared. (Scott Morrison, the Prime Minister of Australia, the most carbon-emitting developed nation per capita, struggled to make his technology work.) But, if you want real hope, the best place to look may be a little noted report from the London-based think tank Carbon Tracker Initiative.

Titled “The Sky’s the Limit,” it begins by declaring that “solar and wind potential is far higher than that of fossil fuels and can meet global energy demand many times over.” Taken by itself, that’s not a very bold claim: scientists have long noted that the sun directs more energy to the Earth in an hour than humans use in a year. But, until very recently, it was too expensive to capture that power. That’s what has shifted—and so quickly and so dramatically that most of the world’s politicians are now living on a different planet than the one we actually inhabit. On the actual Earth, circa 2021, the report reads, “with current technology and in a subset of available locations we can capture at least 6,700 PWh p.a. [petawatt-hours per year] from solar and wind, which is more than 100 times global energy demand.” And this will not require covering the globe with solar arrays: “The land required for solar panels alone to provide all global energy is 450,000 km2, 0.3% of the global land area of 149 million km2. That is less than the land required for fossil fuels today, which in the US alone is 126,000 km2, 1.3% of the country.” These are the kinds of numbers that reshape your understanding of the future.

We haven’t yet fully grasped this potential because it’s happened so fast. In 2015, zero per cent of solar’s technical potential was economically viable—the small number of solar panels that existed at that time had to be heavily subsidized. But prices for solar energy have collapsed so fast over the past three years that sixty per cent of that potential is already economically viable. And, because costs continue to slide with every quarter, solar energy will be cheaper than fossil fuels almost everywhere on the planet by the decade’s end. (It’s a delicious historical irony that this evolution took place, entirely by coincidence, during the Administration of Donald Trump, even as he ranted about how solar wasn’t “strong enough” and was “very, very expensive.”) The Carbon Tracker report, co-written by Kingsmill Bond, is full of fascinating points, including how renewable energy is the biggest gift of all for some of the poorest nations, including in Africa, where solar potential outweighs current energy use by a factor of more than a thousand. Only a few countries—Singapore, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and a handful of European countries—are “stretched” in their ability to rely on renewables, because they both use a lot of energy and have little unoccupied land. In these terms, Germany is in the third-worst position, and the fact that it is nonetheless one of the world’s leaders in renewable energy should be a powerful signal: “If the Germans can find solutions, then so can everyone else.” Clearly, those few nations are going to be importing some renewable energy—a more farsighted Australian Prime Minister would be figuring out how to send ships full of solar-generated hydrogen to Japan, not how to continue shipping coal to China. (And, in fact, the world’s largest solar farm is set to end up in the Australian outback, connected by at least two thick undersea cables to Singapore.)

The numbers in the report are overwhelming—even if the analysts are too optimistic by half, we’ll still be swimming in cheap solar energy. “We have established that technical and economic barriers have been crossed by falling costs. It follows that the main remaining barrier to change is the ability of incumbents to manipulate political forces to stop change,” the report reads. Indeed. And the problem is that we need that change to happen right now, because the curves of damage from the climate crisis are as steep as the curves of falling solar prices. Given three or four decades, economics will clearly take care of the problem—the low price of solar power will keep pushing us to replace liquid fuels with electricity generated from the sun, and, eventually, no one will have a gas boiler in the basement or an internal-combustion engine in the car. But, if the transition takes three or four decades, no one will have an ice cap in the Arctic, either, and everyone who lives near a coast will be figuring out where on earth to go.


Bill McKibben, New Yorker You won't read this on a Murdoch media.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3959

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The obvious point in my post is that the left hides/ignores/deflects the fact that no matter what the US does to reduce CO2, it will do nothing to reduce global warming, possibly slow it a small bit, but no temperature reduction.

Why:

Quote:
As of 2020, 350 coal-fired power plants are under construction. They include seven in South Korea, 13 in Japan, 52 in India, and 184 in China with the rest underway in other parts of the world.

China is also building and financing hundreds of other coal-fired power plants in countries such as Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Egypt, and Bangladesh.

https://energynow.ca/2020/12/commentary-china-is-building-184-coal-plants-guess-what-that-will-do-to-carbon-emissions-mark-milke-and-ven-venkatachalam/

Plus, China doesn't have to begin to reduce emissions for 9 more years thanks to that wonderful deal called the Paris Accord.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16563
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The obvious point in my post is that the left hides/ignores/deflects the fact that no matter what the US does to reduce CO2, it will do nothing to reduce global warming, possibly slow it a small bit, but no temperature reduction.

Why:

Quote:
As of 2020, 350 coal-fired power plants are under construction. They include seven in South Korea, 13 in Japan, 52 in India, and 184 in China with the rest underway in other parts of the world.

China is also building and financing hundreds of other coal-fired power plants in countries such as Turkey, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Egypt, and Bangladesh.

https://energynow.ca/2020/12/commentary-china-is-building-184-coal-plants-guess-what-that-will-do-to-carbon-emissions-mark-milke-and-ven-venkatachalam/

Plus, China doesn't have to begin to reduce emissions for 9 more years thanks to that wonderful deal called the Paris Accord.


Completely wrong, completely without thought or reaction to what is posted from more mainstream sites. The key has always been achieving a competitive advantage for electricity generation from solar. The progress--stimulated in part by Obama's first stimulus package--has been stupendous. It is why buggy whip manufacturers went all in on a piece of shit like Trump.

But then, I still believe in American ingenuity and genius.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5060

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After three decades of relentless government promotion and subsidies, solar intermittently provides about 1% of global energy needs, all backed up by hydrocarbon power plants. Carbon sources provide 84%, no back up needed. The oil and gas industry is quaking in its boots.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8678
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah....quaking
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16563
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait--isn't that the fault of the liberal government that hasn't built new reservoirs and is giving the water away to fish?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5060

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Yeah....quaking

Another non sequitur.......but I know you are trying your best, so well done you!
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10095

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, I can't believe that you can't see beyond Sen. Kennedy's foolish stunt.

In your mind, I guess there is no reason at all to seriously address our warming climate problem because other nations in the world are still building coal-fired power plants and ignoring other polluting industries. The idea of the US being a world leader and striving to be at the forefront of research and development into the future is totally lost on folks like you. Seemingly, you would rather listen to foolish nonsense from the likes of Donald Trump and the dimwitted Republicans that worship and adore him.
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