If still undecided with 2020 election

mac · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:55 am Post subject:

Claims like mrgybes, with false information, is the way that evangelicals virtue signal, and justify their acceptance of the lawlessness of the Trump administration. Anything is justified to realize a change in the Supreme Court to ban abortion absolutely.

When I was a kid in Catholic schools in the 1950's and 1960's, I was taught that "the end justifies the means" was the ideology of godless Communism. How times have changed.

J64TWB · Joined: 24 Dec 2013 Posts: 1685

An embryo is termed a fetus in the 11th week of pregnancy. A frozen embryo is not alive and is viable indefinitely. So start your argument in the 11th week.

mac · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:22 pm Post subject:

The court specifically recognized 20 weeks--a distinction missing in the evangelicals efforts to prevent rather than minimize abortion.

The ironic thing is that evangelicals, particularly the right wing Catholics, have also tried to prevent access to contraceptives and the morning after pill--which both are more effective ways to reduce abortion than packing the court.

justall · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 442

justall · Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 442

swchandler · Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588

What really worries me is when overzealous religious folks want everyone to adhere to their beliefs, and they actively strive to create laws to curb and restrict the freedom of others. Unfortunately, women have long suffered the greatest losses of freedom in their lives, and arguably a lot of it been deeply rooted in religious beliefs and legal restrictions. In today's world, I see no reason strip women of the rights that they have desperately fought for an eternity.

We have to remember throughout history that untold wars have been fought in the name of religion. The idea that religious folks are against killing just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I have to call BS on the current "sanctity of life" argument being promoted by religious zealots to target women.

boggsman1 · Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer

Well stated Chandler. I was moved watching RBG argue an abortion case in front of the SCOTUS in the 1970's. 9 older men listening to the razor sharp reasoning of an diminutive women , as she won the important case. I too hope the law prevails over the desires of religious folks..those of us who are not invested in the religion of abortion shouldn't have to take a back seat to those who deem their views as superior.

mac · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:00 pm Post subject:

The thing that is wrong with this discussion is it is always presented in absolute terms. One of the things that is missing is men taking responsibility for their own behavior. If this ever surfaces from conservatives, it is usually with an argument that they get to choose whether or not their partner in pregnancy gets a choice of whether or not to carry the fetus to birth. But men don't take responsibility either for avoiding pregnancy or paying childraising costs. The statistics are crystal clear.

The second thing that is missing is a frank discussion of what actually works to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Rape? Some Republicans have surfaced absolutely absurd arguments about that. Again, the statistics show that education and the availability of contraception have a dramatic effect in reducing abortion.

We could actually have an informed discussion about whether or not restrictions on abortion are consistent with Roe, at either 20 weeks or 24 weeks. I've never heard that from the right. and the legislation that has been developed by ALEC tries to regulate abortion from conception.

Even if the Supreme Court unwrites Roe, it will remain to the states to exercise their authority. Let's be clear. Much of the motivation behind ALEC legislation for things like abortion and court packing is providing economic benefits for big business.

coboardhead · Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303

When I was a young Catholic and evaluating my life and how religion would fit into it, it wasn't abortion that caused me the most concern. Not even close. It was how I could reconcile my desire for "wealth" and the teachings of Jesus.

Let's face it. It is much easier for a wealthy man to tell a woman what to do with her body than it is to give up that wealth to take care of less fortunate humans, including those unwanted children.

If we feel we can ask another Christian to justify his vote for a candidate who supports choice; isn't it fair game to ask how we justify our incredible wealth compared to the rest of humanity?

mrgybe · Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180