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Wildfires and global warming
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
I'd like to see another chart from mac, charts are always so cool.
But there is some news out there also that the charts can't display.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/authorities-arrest-4-people-on-arson-charges-in-deadly-and-massive-california-oregon-and-washington-wildfires?

Any Antifa or BLM links? I wouldn't be a bit surprised, I keep hearing "Burn it down!".


Try reading deeper child. The following was from an article cited in your link:

The FBI said it worked with local authorities to investigate claims that extremists set wildfires and found them to be false.

“Conspiracy theories and misinformation take valuable resources away local fire and police agencies working around the clock to bring these fires under control," an FBI statement said. "Please help our entire community by only sharing validated information from official sources.”

Officials in Oregon also debunked claims this week of widespread arrests affiliated with the Proud Boys or antifa.

“Remember when we said to follow official sources only,” the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office posted Thursday. “Remember when we said rumors make this already difficult incident even harder? Rumors spread just like wildfire and now our 9-1-1 dispatchers and professional staff are being overrun with requests for information and inquiries on an UNTRUE rumor that 6 Antifa members have been arrested for setting fires in DOUGLAS COUNTY, OREGON.”

Medford, Oregon, police knocked down a fake graphic spreading online that used the department’s logo and a photo from an unrelated 2018 arrest to falsely claim five Proud Boys had been arrested for arson.

A social media post shared widely on Thursday featured a picture of a woman along with claims that she tried to start a fire near a high school in Springfield, Oregon. Springfield police told The Associated Press that they spoke to the woman Wednesday and that wasn’t true.

Another post claimed a landowner called police after arsonists threw Molotov cocktails on his land in Clackamas County and they got into a shootout. The Clackamas County Sheriff’s Office told the AP that no such reports existed.

Freelance journalist Justin Yau tweeted Thursday that he was told to leave the small town of Molalla, Oregon, by an “armed group” that feared outsiders after seeing rumors of arson nearby.

Thousands of Twitter and Facebook users shared posts trying to link the fires to antifa activists, including from Paul Romero, a former Republican candidate for U.S. Senate in Oregon.

Reached by phone, Romero blamed the surge in fires statewide on a coordinated “army of arsonists” but offered no evidence to support that claim.

The posts also are being shared by social media accounts associated with QAnon, a conspiracy theory centered on the baseless belief that Trump is waging a secret campaign against enemies in the so-called deep state and a child sex trafficking ring.

Police are investigating a fire that originated in Ashland, Oregon, as a potential arson after finding human remains, Jackson County Sheriff Nathan Sickler told reporters Wednesday.

However, Ashland Deputy Police Chief Art LeCours confirmed to the AP that the case has “no connection whatsoever to antifa.”

The Jackson County Sheriff’s Office hasn't made any arrests and its investigation shows no evidence at this point of a coordinated effort, spokesman Mike Moran said.

“These investigations take time,” he said. “They’re intense. They’re fast moving. And so people ought to consider: ‘Does this even make sense?’ They should question anything they see in a social media setting.”

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/fire-officials-battle-rumors-raging-wildfires-72954708
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16249
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW’s source was founded by Glenn Beck. The unprincipled brainwashing the gullible. Anything to divert from global warming’s role in devastating fires.

Tell me NW, are you getting paid for posting this nonsense?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16249
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the claims of those who have made money from fossil fuels, these fires are made much worse by climate change. Contrary to the predictable blame the victim nonsense by mrgybe, the fire suppression policies he blames on Democrats have been in place since 1910 as Federal policy. In fact, Brown and Newsom have increased funding for prescribed burning. But we all known that gybe has no interest in the truth.

Quote:
Fundamentally the science is very, very simple,” Philip Duffy, the president of a climate research center, said, explaining the role climate change plays in the fires. “Warmer and drier conditions create drier fuel,” he said. “What would have been a fire easily extinguished now just grows very quickly and becomes out of control.”
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
Despite the claims of those who have made money from fossil fuels, these fires are made much worse by climate change. Contrary to the predictable blame the victim nonsense by mrgybe, the fire suppression policies he blames on Democrats have been in place since 1910 as Federal policy. In fact, Brown and Newsom have increased funding for prescribed burning. But we all known that gybe has no interest in the truth.

Quote:
Fundamentally the science is very, very simple,” Philip Duffy, the president of a climate research center, said, explaining the role climate change plays in the fires. “Warmer and drier conditions create drier fuel,” he said. “What would have been a fire easily extinguished now just grows very quickly and becomes out of control.”


I believe, moving forward, we need to recognize that the climate now is conducive to large fires. Burying our heads in the sand or claiming that the reason for the large fires is poor forest management is beside the point. I think we can all agree that there is a very big problem in the west with these larger fires.

We need to look at solutions such as, possibly, limiting development in forested areas to cluster developments with fire barriers, clear cut logging of fire swaths, and fire resistive building techniques. Politically, this is a tough sell. I have four large residences under construction in areas prone to wildfire. When someone spends a million bucks on a parcel of ground, it is difficult to tell them they cannot build or the property needs to be cleared of many of the trees.

These are not very palatable solutions. We all love our pristine forests. But, the sad fact is that we have over populated the earth and reducing the pressures on these habitats may not be possible.

This weekend, I rode my bike on a trail in a burn from a fire two years ago. It was both encouraging and discouraging. Parts of the forest were looking pretty good really. The scrub vegetation was gone and the Ponderosa Pines were left...at least the large ones. There were small saplings emerging...something I haven't seen much of in the past. But, parts of the forest were decimated. Stands of spruce completely obliterated for hundreds of acres...not a tree. It will be several generations before this is a forest again. I can't help but feel that this just puts more pressure on the surviving forests which will increase the potential (this was a human caused fire) for wild fires.

In the short term, we, probably, have to come to terms with the idea that forests are going to burn and they are going to burn big.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16249
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Largely true CB. The three root causes are:

--a century plus of fire suppression without realization that fire is a natural element of the western ecosystem

--climate change which has exacerbated if not caused a multi-decade drought throughout the west

--rural subdivisions with houses that are not fire hardened.

This morning's newspaper (I know, reading one is so old school, it only helps you stay informed) had this article: https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Are-climate-change-or-poor-forest-management-15564031.php

There were nearly 150 million dead trees in California. Fire suppression had led to a landscape where there were generally twice as many trees per acre, and sometimes three times as many. That is not good for sustained wood production or habitat. The trees are too small and too close together for feasible logging.

Unfortunately, the political system that makes compromise poisonous, which derailed Feinstein's effort in the Library Group, and paralyses action until there is a crisis, is also to blame.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3910

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listen to Biden's speech today, and his comments about how far away satellites can see the west coast smoke. Start at 3:05 minutes.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=video+of+biden%27s+speech+today&&view=detail&mid=203FD266F2E739EF2212203FD266F2E739EF2212&rvsmid=6A0F3BDE4D6622CBEF316A0F3BDE4D6622CBEF31&FORM=VDRVRV
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://time.com/5888449/wildfires-smoke-california-oregon-washington-satellite-space/

https://nypost.com/2020/09/13/west-coast-smoke-seen-sucked-into-cyclone-over-1000-miles-away/
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the way to Michigan
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/western-wildfires-smoke-satellite-image-east-michigan/
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is so strange that where I am in Colorado, there has been no smoke for a week now. The weather patterns from the satellite view are impressive. A week ago (before the big cold front) we could not see across the valley from the California fires.
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