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Pipe Dream? Vote Fraud .00075%
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BajaDean said:
Quote:
yep right wingers want people to vote absentee in right wing areas because they will challenge them so they are only counted in a re-count. that is another right wing tactic.


So you think no one should vote absentee to circumvent conservative voting manipulation? Or maybe everyone voting absentee should be required to provide a photo ID with their ballot? Maybe absentee voting is only allowed for Democrats?

Just how would you design a bullet proof voting system? Maybe "hanging chads" and do away with the electronic systems?
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14834
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
Mr. Fick-shun wrote:

Yet the House just voted overwhelmingly to cut COLAs on the disability pensions of all disabled combat veteran...

Awww... poor Mikey. Deprived of an increase in your disability payment. My heart bleeds for ya, big guy.
.


I assume it was his military that gave the estimate to the Iraq war that Cheney Bush said would even pay for itself. So there and his lie was several trillion dollars. Yes I believe those who submitted that and those who believed it should accept what they said it would be. Yep was it 55 billion or so.

again this military criminal enterprise who said it would be 55 billion or so should not be extorting america for being off by a few trillion.

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by real-human on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
BajaDean said:
Quote:
yep right wingers want people to vote absentee in right wing areas because they will challenge them so they are only counted in a re-count. that is another right wing tactic.


So you think no one should vote absentee to circumvent conservative voting manipulation? Or maybe everyone voting absentee should be required to provide a photo ID with their ballot? Maybe absentee voting is only allowed for Democrats?

Just how would you design a bullet proof voting system? Maybe "hanging chads" and do away with the electronic systems?


the largest vote frauds found to date have been by the ones who are in control of the local area. you know the local offiicals stuffing ballot boxes.

The single largest threat is any electronic means where the data is handled or transfered. It is impossible to stop people from manipulating it.

See as I said in any machine I can put a chip in that does what I want and when I want it to. and impossible to detect and find, as I said only a few years ago our government said computers with classifed material on them can not be made in china. And if you notice a chinese communications company has been stopped from installing their equiptment here.

Chad machines can be minipulted too. I could easily put in a rf receiving chip in them and trigger my outcome I desire. And second to that if I am the vendor of the punch cards I can easily dull a part of the steel rule die in 20 seconds to cause the candidate I do not want to win to have statistically higher hanging chads. again you never saw that in the media either. Just as you do not see my simple question that to date not one partisan right winger will answer. very simple and yet to the point that shuts down any back talk from the right.

FYI diebold the largest manufacturer of vote machines in the US (and Bush supporter), one of his lead people in the vote machine area was a convicted felon. He was convicted of putting in back doors into accounting software to embezzle money. When he got out of prison he interestingly enough got into printing and making voting punch cards. and later high ranking in diebolds vote machines.

I have had Engineers that worked for me go work for companies in the electronic gaming industry to make slot machines and similar. To get a programming job there if you even have two speeding tickets you can not be hired. I am sure it is similar with diebolds ATM. Yet they have a convicted felon involved with vote machines that do not have print outs.

The answer is do it like Canada does it. Hand ballots are cast and counted.

Or if you want to do it electronically, you have the dems, independents, Green, and the repugnants each make their own machines for counting. a person electronically casts their ballot, it prints it the person verifys it before leaving the vote booth and the person enters it into each parties machine and deposits into a secure lock box. The numbers are tabulated at the end of the day and checked with all parties. If the numbers do not match then no one goes home and you do a hand count right there of the lock box.

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darn, I guess the conservative voting machine makers really blew it and let Obama win TWICE.

Counting ballots by hand is the perfect solution. No reason there would be any errors with this process.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Darn, I guess the conservative voting machine makers really blew it and let Obama win TWICE.

Counting ballots by hand is the perfect solution. No reason there would be any errors with this process.


I know this is a bit past your paygrade, but did you know that even accounting uses statistical analysis to find fraud. No different than in voting. Did you know that when the US even under Bush monitored elections in other countries that they use statistical analysis to determine if there was vote fraud that would affect the election. This is done only with exit polling.

So here ya go, again if the the difference was say more than 0.5 sigma it is statistically a correupt election. You can only cheat so much before it become evident. Just like when Bush won the first time, there were a bunch of sates that the exit polling did not match the Bush wins. This is the indicator of fraud.

Now if I was in charge of rigging the elections would I use this all of the time to throw off people, no. But rest assure I would use it next election.

also a curious thing about Nevada where I am a resident, it hugely elected Obama and in the polls and exit polls and the election but it is amazing how right wing representatives get elected. This is precisely what you can do too because typically you do not do exit polling except for presidential candidates because of the expense.


again you will not answer my question if Sorros company et al made all the machines would you ever trust the outcome of any election.

Believe me if I made the machines you could NEVER catch me with how things are done right now. I have challenged some people to put up big money on a challenge that I would make a machine and with present methods of verification, I could flip or change the entire amount to me and no way you could catch it. It really is that easy...

and why do you think these vote machine companies will not allow a full review of just their software/firmware. My gosh these are the most basic programs ever made adding machines any college engineering programmer could do vote counting. their is nothing proprietary that they claim is why they do not allow us to see the software/firmware. that alone tell ya.

again I just gave a very easy way to verify, am I some kind of genius that no one else can not figure it out, nope. These companies are run by ultra right wing partisans, are you saying they are just as stupid as the right wingers on this forum. Nope the fix is in.

again you just shave a few points here and there is all that is needed to change an election and continue doing it on and on.

BTW Canada does just fine counting the ballots by hand...

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when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.


Last edited by real-human on Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voting has been flawed from Roman days.
The key point here is that the GOP in Fla. changed the voter ID laws for one reason only, according to an honest individual who was a part of that fraud in that state;
The party leadership openly gloated at how effective these laws would be to stop minority,young new voters, and elderly Dems from voting.
I dont mind showing my ID; The underlying principle is sound.
The real reason for the laws is disheartening.
That kind of thing is not what America is supposed to champion.
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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have no problem with showing a Id to vote. But it does nothing to stop any system vote fraud by local election officials or by machine manufacturers, electronic fraud and so on massive fraud. I know all right wingers believe all the people who make the machines and control the elections at state levels are all honest.

and second to it the dems tried to pass a gov ID law but it was not for voting but for jobs. Was blocked by the right wing.

I have no problem with vote id laws if the id is free and easly accessible.

for instance you can get this ID at any US post office for free. That a ID is made on the spot, or a temp one that is good vor voting and job for a week or so.. Or mailed to your shortly thereafter and you can pick it up at the post office if you prefer. This ID a national one would be good for voting, and jobs and with jobs the employer would not be criminally liable if this id was used for employment.

it is free, and one form of biometrix is used to get it. if you lose it within a year you pay a fee for it, if after 3 years it is just $5.00 to replace. and every 5-10 years you can get a free one.

It is not mandatory to get it. Just free if you do. and at every post office.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pennsylvania in court presented its facts under oath about in person vote fraud defending their law. They stated they have never done an investigation and never convicted anyone of in person vote fraud.

wow a great reason to pass a law.

as noted their law has been deemed rejected today..


again why doesn't that liberal media come out with what ID did the founding fathers have? why isn't it the same... I thought right wingers were all tea party back to what the founders did.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can we get joe the plumber in for his stats expertise... we need some dumb people to figure this out. amazing how right wingers pass laws to prevent people from voting when they will not allow oh because they are educated to do some verification. we need folksy people according to the right.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/05/voting-statistics/

Quote:
One of the often cited concerns of electronic voting is the lack of hard record. Indeed, Black Box Voting has been reporting on this concern now for over a decade. As the statistical models become analyzed, patterns begin to appear which no longer reflect history. In short, elections stop making sense, mathematically. One statistician has decided to do something about it.

Dr. Beth Clarkson is, according to her website, “Chief Statistician at the National Institute for Aviation Research (NIAR); Senior Research Engineer and Chief Statistician for the National Center for Advanced Materials Performance (NCAMP); and Co-Chair of the Statistics Working Group and founding board member of the Composite Materials Handbook (CMH-17).” In short, she is highly skilled at analyzing, decoding, and drawing conclusions from statistics. The perfect person to review election results to identify trends, or irregularities.

Without access to the original record, however, her study is indirect. In her study, what she has found indicates an irregularity in the voting results, where the larger a district, the more the swing from Democrat to Republican can be noticed. This was first noted by former NSA analyst Michael Duniho, who uncovered the digital fingerprint of voting machine tampering in the 2012 elections. To identify if this is a true case, someone with the needed skills needs to cross-reference the electronic results against the paper roll master, and Dr. Clarkson aims to be that person.

On April 1st, she then filed suit against Kris Kobach, Kansas’ Secretary of State, and Tabith Lehman, the Elections Commissioner for the county of Sedwick, Kansas, to gain access to these very paper roll data records. This is of a small enough area to be easy to process, but holds a large enough sample to verify the statistics. In short, this is a microcosm for elections we can then expand to cover a much larger area, one random enough to prevent bias.



The irregularities regarding electronic voting continue to pile up. From unauthorized software patches to flipping votes, the concerns over electronic voting machines continue to mount. Even former employees of the companies which make the voting machines have alleged culpability in election fraud, and falsifying records.

That Dr. Clarkson had to sue to gain access to these records is truly the troubling bit. Elections depend on being open and honest, so as to give those elected authority. By hiding this information, elected officials are undermining the very authority they need in order to operate. With this secrecy over our elections, it is no wonder that trust in our government is so poor.

We wish the good Doctor much luck in her suit. If the Kansas’ government had nothing to hide, it would agree to turn over the records for analysis. Do the right thing Kansas.

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real-human



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Virginia Voting Machines ‘Protected’ by Ridiculously Simple Reply with quote

why is there no outrage when millions of votes easily could be changed. Note right wingers have mega outrage over the potential that has been investigated by federal prosecutors Under Bush Rove as a priority only supassed by that of terrorists after 9-11. and states that are right wing also and to date only a handful or two of people who most mistakenly thought they could vote have ever been convicted.

Now Bush=rove never went after vooting machine fraud or potential fraud, not have the right wing think tanks. Or the right wing media. Ever wonder why? Well all the companies that make electronic vote machines are owned and operated by, not normal right wingers but very partisan right wingers.

So these right wing companies have passwords that they know on all these machines. A person could sit outside a election and change those votes and be undetected. All you needed was a password like "admin". And these machines are still in use.........

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/virginia-voting-machines-protected-by-116556609864.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

Virginia Voting Machines ‘Protected’ by Ridiculously Simple Passwords, Report Claims

Quote:
Most people know that using a password like “12345” or “password” to protect their email or Facebook account is a ridiculously terrible idea.

But apparently, no one mentioned that to the company in charge of building Virginia’s election machines.

According to a study by the Virginia Information Technology Agency and reported on by The Guardian, the AVS WinVote machines used in three presidential elections were protected by such astonishingly simple passwords a 6-year old could figure them out.

The report, found that the wireless network between the machines, which were in use between 2002 and 2014, was protected by passwords such as “abcde” and “admin.”

If someone was able to get into those machines via a wireless connection they theoretically could have controlled the outcome to major elections from the relative comfort of the parking lot of the voting location.

According to the report, cracking the passwords to the voting machines took “minimal effort using freely available toolsets.” That means that anyone with even a hint of knowhow could have easily broken into these machines.

Jeremy Epstein of Princeton University’s Center for Information Technology Policy wrote in a post about the voting machines that “if no Virgina elections were ever hacked (and we have no way of knowing if it happened), it’s because no one with even a modicum of skill tried.

It wasn’t just the machine’s passwords that were lacking: they were also running a version of Windows XP Embedded 2002 and had never been patched or otherwise updated. In fact, the machines were found to still have a vulnerability that was fixed back in 2004.

The Guardian says that the machines were used in no less than 24 elections in Virginia over the years. They were also in use in Mississippi and Pennsylvania, but those states eventually stopped using them.

This isn’t the first time voting machines have come under fire for their ability to be hacked. In 2012, Wired reported that Diebold voting machines used in 20 states were easily hacked by installing off-the-shelf equipment from your local electronics store.

But the Virginia WVS WinVote machines were far worse, as hackers never needed to touch the machines to take control of them.

Virginia has since decertified the machines, and is looking into alternatives for the upcoming election season.

May we suggest some Florida-style paper chads? Nothing controversial ever happens with those.

Email Daniel Howley at dhowley@yahoo-inc.com; follow him on Twitter at @DanielHowley or on Google+.

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