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January 6th
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1560

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't fix stupid!
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1675

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems isobars equates “an assault on democracy” and a “smash and grab” at target for some tennis shoes as one of the same. It seems Mrgybe does as well. Violent Insurrections at the heart of our democracy don’t seem to bother theses folks at all. Defiantly claiming America is a center right, which by the way, hasn’t voted center right since 1980’s, boy that sure does bother him. Bothers him enough to jump right back in this “ridiculous” forum.

Nope folks, no news here with an insurrection staged, organized and prepared by the former President of the United States, attacking the U.S. Capitol and it’s legislative branch of government. Standard daily fair, par for the course for these chumps. No need to chime in on that.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17043
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are dishonest people who swing right and left. There is a hard core of creepy people who are nihilists that attend demonstrations organized by the left and the right. People who organize demonstrations have been attacked with hammers when they tried to stop nihilists from breaking windows. This was perhaps at its worst in Portland, with both left wing nihilists and right wing Proud Boys acting out violently.

It is very different when those in government organize the violence. That is what Trump and his brownshirts did. There is no doubt that Trump did everything he could think of to try to steal the 2020 election. He or his brownshirts threatened election officials in multiple places—felonies under State and Federal laws. He replaced conservative, but credible leaders in the military with co-conspirators who were committed to aiding his coup. They prevented the national guard from helping to protect the capitol. This was not an accident, it was sedition. It is still going on.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And it's getting worse .. being rationalized daily , by folks like ISO.. It is what it is , these people are traitors , plain and simple not Americans
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
And it's getting worse .. being rationalized daily , by folks like ISO.. It is what it is , these people are traitors , plain and simple not Americans


https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/05/politics/jimmy-carter-democracy-jan-6-oped/index.html
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10310

PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I find scary about guys like isobars is that they think that they are well informed and savvy characters that we should listen to and respect. Of course, it will never happen because more thoughtful folks see and recognize the truth around them and aren't easily fooled by nonsense. Sadly, I'm afraid that isobars will never see the light, and he will remain angry and mad as hell until the end of his days.

Last edited by swchandler on Thu Jan 06, 2022 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1560

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really couldn't believe my ears that PBS NewsHour would let this idiot from Texas be aired but he's entitled to his opinion.

Division in the country is being furthered by opinions such as this.

Grandmas ushered in to the Capitol?...The current administrations is to blame as they hate, no despise Trump!!!


View yourself or read the transcript!

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/trump-supporter-rep-nehls-on-defending-the-capitol-against-pro-trump-mob

Judy Woodruff:

One year ago this week, crowds stormed the U.S. Capitol while lawmakers were inside affirming the results of the presidential election.

We have two different views on the events of January 6 from lawmakers on opposite sides of the aisle who were both at the Capitol that day.

Lisa Desjardins begins our coverage.

Lisa Desjardins:
And now I am joined by Troy Nehls, a Republican congressman from Texas, also a former sheriff and combat veteran.

Thank you for your service, and thank you for talking to us today.

I know, on January 6, you were there with a chair leg in your arms at the door to the House chamber to keep rioters out. I wonder how you reflect. What do you think happened on January 6? How do you see it?

Rep. Troy Nehls (R-TX):
Well, actually, thank you, Lisa, for having me.

It actually was a hand sanitizer. It was a wooden hand sanitizer. I was at the back doors, the center doors leading into, obviously, the House chamber. Those doors would be the same doors a president would walk through when he would deliver a State of the Union.

And I was positioned back at those doors. And, obviously, once we went — were going through the objectors in the Arizona, and the state of Arizona was there, and then, all of a sudden, several uniformed personnel in plainclothes. Obviously, the plainclothes rushed Nancy off the dais back there and rushed her back in her speaker's lobby.

But, the doors started shaking violently. I mean, the doors were locked, but people were banging on those doors. And Capitol Police were there. I was told by one of them that I must leave. And I chose not to. I said: "I'm not. I am not leaving. I'm going to sit there and I'm going to be there with my brothers and sisters in blue."

And the doors kept shaking violently. You could hear the commotion on the other side. And then you can see in some of the photos that furniture was brought over to help secure those doors.

But there was a — these wooden hand sanitizers. And Markwayne Mullin, another member of Congress, was there. And he broke off — broke off that hand sanitizer off that wooden base, and there was another one there. And I did the same thing. So that was my weapon for the day should those individuals be successful in getting through those doors.

And thank goodness they weren't.

Lisa Desjardins:
I know that you have called what happened criminal. You have been very clear in saying that it was dangerous, those who incited violence were wrong.

But there is a real divide over the narrative about January 6. And there's a real divide over the role of President Trump, the former president, who I know you support.

I wonder, how do you see his role that day?

Rep. Troy Nehls:
Well, let's go back to the individuals that you mentioned I used the word criminal. And, yes, there were individuals inside that Capitol Building that day that committed very — assault on police officers, and some of those assaults even being aggravated.

If you were inside the Capitol that day, and you broke windows, and you destroyed property, you should be held accountable. If you assaulted a law enforcement officer, you shouldn't just go to jail. You should go to prison.

And I think most of the American people agree with that, that when you were in there, and you were committing criminal violations of the law, assaults, destruction of property, breaking the windows, you should be held fully accountable for your actions that day.

But what we do know is, there were many people inside that Capitol Building that day that were not doing any of those things. They weren't touching anybody. They weren't assaulting anybody. They were walking around inside that Capitol Building. Many of them were grandmas. Many of them almost appeared to be ushered in.

And so their only crime that a majority of the people inside that building, the people that entered that building, I guess the only crime was maybe entering the building. And many of them, quite honestly, didn't even realize that they were committing a violation of the law. That is the United States Capitol. It's open to citizens.

And it's the country's building. So, I kind of question some of the motives of the DOJ and others who are claiming that every person inside that building is an insurrectionist. That term gets to be used quite a bit by the liberal media, but nobody has obviously ever been charged with insurrection.

So, I have — I pause as it relates to the 700 or so individuals that have been arrested by the FBI and the DOJ as it related to their activities on that day.

Lisa Desjardins:
I got to check your language. I heard you say that it seemed some of them were ushered in. I didn't see anyone ushered in. I saw people breaking in.

I also want to come back to the former president, former President Trump.
At 4:00 on January 6, you wrote this tweet after seeing what you did. You wrote: "What I'm witnessing is a disgrace. Violence is never the answer," a strong tweet from you.

But at that moment, as of that time, President Trump still had not told the rioters to go home. And we know there were many, many Trump supporters in that crowd, if not the majority of the crowd, from my experience.

Did he do enough? What do you think his role was that day?
Rep. Troy Nehls:

Well, I don't — I'm not in Donald Trump's head. I wasn't in the Oval Office or wherever he was positioned that day.

And I wasn't one of his top advisers. So, I don't know. I mean, could he have maybe said something earlier?

Lisa Desjardins:

But he's your president. He was our president.

Rep. Troy Nehls:
Maybe he could have said something earlier. Maybe he did.

Lisa Desjardins:
But I have to say, he was our president, a Republican, and you support him. You think…

Rep. Troy Nehls:
But you alluded to earlier when I made the comment about being ushered in, nobody on this select committee — and it's Pelosi's select committee. Bennie Thompson is the puppet, and she is the puppet master.

You want to claim that it's bipartisan. When you look at bipartisan, Liz Cheney and Kinzinger are Pelosi Republicans. Kinzinger isn't running again. And, obviously, Liz Cheney is going to be defeated here in 2022.

But that entire committee, they all have one thing in common. They hate Donald Trump. They don't hate. They despise him. They talk about him all the time. And I kind of joke that they have a serious crush on this guy. They have a serious crush on Donald Trump, because that's all they want to talk about.

What they want to do is blame Donald Trump for January 6 with everything. They want to go after him, all of his associates. They could do contempt of Congress against Bannon. Then it was Mark Meadows.

But nobody on this committee is asking the real difficult questions, the questions that the American people need to know about, and that is, why were the Capitol Police so ill-prepared to deal with that day?

Lisa Desjardins:
How do we move forward? How do you think we get past the divide in the country, in just a sentence or two?

Rep. Troy Nehls:
I — that's a very difficult question. I think our country overall lacks faith. I think we need to get back to basic principles. And we're losing faith as a country.

But there is that divide, unfortunately. I went to Donald — I went to Joe Biden's inauguration on January 20. And he got up there and he said that he would work with his friends on the other side of the aisle. And, quite honestly, as a member that's been there for 12 months, I haven't seen any of it. I haven't seen any of it.

Joe Biden despises President Trump. He completely reversed his immigration policies. He completely reversed all these other things. So there is a divided country. And we must do better than that. We owe it to the American people to come together. But, right now, you just don't see it. I certainly don't see it from this administration.

Lisa Desjardins:
Congressman Troy Nehls, we appreciate your time. Thank you.

Rep. Troy Nehls:
Thank you. God bless.

A different perspective!

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/jan-6-insurrection-came-very-close-to-being-much-worse-rep-jeffries-says

Judy Woodruff:

With few exceptions, members of the two political parties view January 6 very differently.

For a Democrat's take now, we are joined by the chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. He is Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

Congressman Jeffries, thank you very much for being with us.

I believe you heard at least part of what Congressman Nehls was saying.

But I want to ask you. You were on the floor of the House on January 6. What memory do you take away from that day?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY):
Well, what took place on January 6 was a violent attack on the Congress, the Capitol and the Constitution.

And it was, of course, incited by the former president of the United States, Donald Trump, who, for several months prior to January 6, had perpetrated the big lie that he actually won the election and that it was stolen from him. He radicalized millions of people across the country. And some of them showed up on January 6 intent on effectively overthrowing the government and trying to halt the peaceful transfer of power it.

It's a day like Pearl Harbor and like Bloody Sunday down in Selma, Alabama, and like September 11 that should live in infamy here in America and throughout the world.

Judy Woodruff:
As we said, you were there on the floor.

How close did it come to being even worse than it was? Ultimately, these rioters were not able to get into the House chamber. They did get into the Senate. But, from your perspective, how close did we come?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
We came very close.

I recall the sergeant at arms interrupting the debate that was under way with respect to the results in Arizona. And he said something that I can remember as vividly as if it was said just today, when he said: "The mob has breached the Capitol. They're on the second floor. They're a few steps outside of the House chamber. Be prepared to hit the floor and secure the gas masks that are underneath your seats."

I had been in Congress at that point for eight years. Never did I have any real understanding that there were gas masks in the House chambers, let alone would have to utilize them one day.

And, thankfully, at some point, the Capitol Police found an escape route. And they were able to safely evacuate members of Congress but many of us at that particular time thought we were actually going to have to fight for our lives.

Judy Woodruff:
And when we heard Congressman Nehls refer to some people or many people, in his words, being ushered in to the building, did you witness that in any way?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
The Capitol was violated. Folks urinated. They desecrated the citadel of our democracy.

This fantasy and fiction that, for many people, it was all wine and roses is after-the-fact spin. That's why the bipartisan January 6 Select Committee is so important in uncovering the truth, presenting it to the American people in terms of what happened, why it happened that day, and also coming forward with some recommendations as to how to prevent that type of violent attack and assault on our democracy from ever happening again.

And, Judy, let me make this one point about the Democratic and Republican members of the select committee, Chairman Bennie Thompson, Vice Chair Liz Cheney. They're doing a great job.

No member of that committee hates Donald Trump. But they do love democracy. They do love America. We all do. We do love the peaceful transfer of power. And that's why we're committed to uncovering the truth.
Judy Woodruff:

And you have spoken about how, in fact, Congresswoman Cheney approached you even as the assault on the Capitol was taking place, spoke to you about how to hold President Trump accountable.

As you point out, she, Congressman Kinzinger now serving on that committee. They are, though, the very much tiny minority in their party.

Have any Republicans in the House spoken to you privately, reflecting any views differently from what we're hearing from the Republican leadership in the House?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, the Republican leadership has completely abdicated any responsibility in the context of ensuring that the events around January 6 never happen again and that it shouldn't be looked at through a partisan lens, because that was an American tragedy.

Now, there are dozens of House Republicans that did, fortunately, vote to certify the election of Joe Biden. And I do have conversations with many of them. They did the right thing that night. And, hopefully, they will continue to try and do the right thing and stand up to the efforts by Donald Trump and his authoritarian co-conspirators to really obliterate American democracy, which would not be good for anyone, not good for Democrats, not good for Republicans, not good for independents, not good for America.

Judy Woodruff:
But do you think there are more than the 10 who voted to impeach him later? I mean, are we looking at a situation where there may be more closet Republicans who are prepared to stand up?

Or is what you see what there is?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, it's my hope that Republicans of goodwill, beyond Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and those who voted to hold Donald Trump accountable for inciting that violent insurrection through their impeachment vote, will stand up and reclaim their party, because, right now, the Republicans are not the party of Ronald Reagan.

They're not the party of John McCain. They're not the party of Bob Dole, or George H.W. Bush, or George W. Bush. They're not even the party of Mitt Romney. They are the party of Donald Trump and a violent insurrection.

Take your party back for the good of America.

Judy Woodruff:
Congressman, I want to turn to something that has grown out of what happened that day and, of course, the challenge to the election.

That's the effort by Democrats to get voting rights reform legislation passed up. Until now, no Republicans have — at least in the Senate, have expressed a willingness to do this. But just in the last few days, the — we're hearing from some Republicans that they would — might be willing to look at the way the electoral vote is counted, instead of voting rights reform.

Is that something that you think could be acceptable?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, it's not an either/or situation. We have to do both. The right to vote is sacred to the integrity of our democracy.

This principle of one person, one vote, and government of the people, by the people, and for the people is really brought to life by every single American being able to exercise their franchise, choosing who represents them at all levels of government.

And so we have got to elevate that, because we have a voter suppression epidemic that is taking place all across the country. And the John Robert Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act are critical in making sure we push back against that.

At the same time, this principle of the peaceful transfer of power, which is central to American democracy, Republican presidents handing off to Democratic presidents, and vice versa, that was interrupted and almost disrupted permanently on January 6.

And reforming the Electoral Account Vote Act is an important thing that should be done to tighten up some loose ends that exist right now in that peaceful transfer of power.

Judy Woodruff:
Congressman, in the time we have left, it is a political year, midterm elections coming in November. It doesn't look like a good year at this point for Democrats, for historical reasons and others.

Right now, is there one thing — or what would you like to see President Biden do that could help the Democratic prospects this November?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, President Biden is doing a great job in making sure that we confront the COVID crisis anchored in science and evidence in a decisive fashion.

And he will continue to lead in that way, at the same time, deal with the economic challenges that we confront, inflation, continue to create millions of good-paying jobs. And then we will have to sell the American people on what we have done.

And we will be able to do that, particularly when we get the Build Back Better Act over the finish line.

Judy Woodruff:
And — but my question is, how confident are you that can happen, given opposition in your own party in the Senate?
Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, I'm very confident.

We're not a cult. We're a coalition. And so we have to work with the various components of that coalition, including Senators Manchin and Sinema. I believe President Biden, who knows the Senate better than perhaps any president in modern American history, he will get it done.

Judy Woodruff:
Are you prepared to see big changes, though, in the Build Back Better bill as it is, for example, cutting in half the threshold household income amount for the child tax credit?

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Well, the tax cut for children and families through the child tax credit has been transformational for working families, low-income families, and middle-class families.

And I think we have to continue to keep it robust. But let's have a conversation and see what Senator Manchin comes up with. At the end of the day, we need a product that decisively makes life better for everyday Americans. And if we get that product, it's something I can live with.
Judy Woodruff:

So, maybe something below $400,000 household income.

Just finally, Congressman Jeffries, we know Speaker Pelosi has said she does intend to serve through the remainder of this term. But if she decides not to run for leadership again, are you going to run for your party's top position in the House?
Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:

Well, I have got a job to do as chair of the House Democratic Caucus. And I also have to go back to the voters to try to get my two-year employment contract renewed in 2022.

So, I'm going to keep the focus on that for the moment.

Judy Woodruff:
We will leave it there.

Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, the chair of the Democratic Caucus, thank you very much.

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries:
Thank you.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17043
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
What I find scary about guys like isobars is that think that they are well informed and savvy characters that we should listen to and respect. Of course, it will never happen because more thoughtful folks see and recognize the truth around them and aren't easily fooled by nonsense. Sadly, I'm afraid that isobars will never see the light, and he will remain angry and mad as hell until the end of his days.


Unfortunately, the nature of media in this country results in repeating and amplifying messages, on both the right and the left, in a manner that at least subtly brainwashes us all. There's a very interesting article in the current New Yorker about Dan Bongino, the current right wing radio favorite. These guys get incredibly rich stoking rage and paranoia. It really began under Reagan, when the FCC stopped enforcing the fairness doctrine, and radio and tv were free to pump simple message repeatedly at only a segment of the body politic. Limbaugh, the real pioneer and Trump's hero, got filthy rich--he was making $85 million a year when that was real money. MSNBC does pretty much the same thing on the left--they aim for cortisol. Rage sells. The products that Bongino sells are a bit sleazier, but these folks do it because it works and it makes them very rich.

Now to the brainwashing part. The article cites the work of Jennifer Mercieca, a professor of rhetoric at Texas A and M and author of "Demagogue for President". Here is the meaty part:

Quote:
Repetition, as every cheerleader and every dictator learns, trains the neural networks to make some thoughts more durable than others. "The more we hear something, the more 'sticky' it becomes," Mercieca said. "If we see something a lot, then it feels true."


It's a fundamental element of education--and propaganda. When we learn to read, it is because we have encountered words enough times that they have become "sticky", we no longer need to decode them. It seems like this is a basic characteristic of the human brain. So if all you read is the WSJ, you don't think about whether there is a bias in what you have read--the pro-business, anti-regulation messages are stuck in your brain. Even if you're not a flack for big oil.

The chilling comment was by Bongino when he agreed to talk to the New Yorker. he said "The reality is, I've got a bigger footprint than you guys by tenfold, if not twentyfold. I don't want to be an asshole about it, but there's nothing you can write that I can't write back even worse. It's asymmetric warfare. You'll never win."

People who don't read much listen to this stuff, lap it up, and don't think much about the money that folks like Bongino and Tucker Carlson are making. And if you don't think that folks who read are rare, you must not have noticed the news article about the investigation that found hundreds of stolen Amazon packages. Nobody bothered to steal the books, they were still in the packages. Folks that don't read resent those who do.
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1560

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gun nuts love this shit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WTgq0w_hKs

Perhaps if every security perimeter that was violated was met with kneecapping the Capitol would not have been desecrated.

Poor Ashlie pushed it too far!
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1675

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

History books will not be kind to these republicans. The most dishonorable president in American history. The most abhorrent president in American history. The most deplorable republicans in American history. We will be very lucky if the shinning star of democracy survives these fucking lies. These piles upon piles of fucking dog shit lies.

The Smithsonian has been collecting artifacts for the last year to be part of the American History Museum on the National Mall. There is a protocol in place for such events to immediately begin collecting information and artifacts. They actually started work 4 hours after the attack.

Congratulations Matty, Isobars, NW, Techno, Gybe and the 40 million other fuckheads, you now will be cataloged in the American History Museum, maybe you will have your own wing. Maybe they will build a monument in your honor on the national Mall.

Thanks guys, you assholes have ruined this great country. Couldn’t just debate policy and vote like adults could you? Nope you had to be a children. This great county deserves better than the likes of you.
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