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If still undecided with 2020 election
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16209
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Actively encourage" is utter nonsense. Most Democrats actively encourage measures that would reduce or eliminate abortion.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20114

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I condone late term abortion, but it doesn't affect anyone beyond the immediate families, and even then that effect is positive in their minds. Marxism, or anything even approaching it, will destroy the U.S. just as it has such resource-blessed countries as Venezuela. Many published goals of the far left cabal including the official Harris-Biden* campaign clearly range from socialism at best (e.g., socialized medicine without private options) to outright Marxism (e.g., several of their stated goals I listed a few pages ago.) That will very egregiously affect every one of us in the short term (a couple of years, maybe just months in some cases), and the rest of the planet within a few more years.

* No, that's not a typo. Both Biden and Harris have stated the ticket that way, and Kamala has stated dozens of times that she will issue many specific EOs that no one this side of AOC wants within days to months of swearing in. Even though she cannot legally issue them, no one doubts that their office will roll this way: "Here, Joe; sign this. NOW!". No one who watches the videos on Fox News (we sure as hell aren't going to see them on MSNBCNBCCBSABCCNNetc) of Biden's many total mental breakdowns doubts that.

I'm not talking gaffes; it is crystal clear that his mind just shuts down for minutes at a time far too often for him to negotiate a settlement between two squabbling parakeets, let alone Canada and the U.S. or Arabs and Jews. Such mental collapses are par for the course after the two brain aneurism surgeries he's had. In fact, he as openly admitted that his brain surgeons gave him 35-50% odds of surviving the surgery, with worse odds of retaining mental capacity. Such pathological mental collapses can show up many years later, as we age and as we see in him ... at least on news sources not in the DNC's pocket.

Anyone undecided, or decided in the Harris-Biden ticket's favor, owes it to our country and our planet to suck it up and watch Fox News for a week before choosing and voting. It may nauseate some of you, but it will also open your eyes to the size of saucers and cite and show enough solid references to keep you busy for another week verifying their stories. You may even find it interesting how often far lefties are allowed to speak their minds without ridicule or interruption, unlike your usual "news" sources.

You will also see cold, hard proof of Harris's horrendous performance in her prior jobs.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
You define human life at a different point than I do. So, we cannot have the argument over the rationale behind supporting choice.

For the last time..........I am not talking about your definition of human life, or my definition. I am talking about Joe Biden's definition. He has clearly stated that he believes human life commences at conception. So, given that belief, I ask again.......can you give me a rationale which would enable Biden, or any person of principle, to actively encourage the taking of that human life? Thank you.


I don't believe Biden "actively encourages" abortion by his view that his religious beliefs should not be imposed on others.

But, this thread isn't just about abortion. This thread is about reconciling religious beliefs with voting for a particular candidate. So, I will ask again how you rationalize your support of Trump with the latest Papal Encyclical?
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who actively encourages and actually takes human lives? Trump.

A day after Trump ordered the targeted assassination of Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the head of Iran’s elite Quds Force, at Baghdad’s international airport, he appeared before a raucous crowd of Christian supporters in Miami. In his speech, he claimed that Soleimani was planning a “very major attack,” and he was “terminated” in a “flawless” strike. Trump went on to say, "Qassem Soleimani has been killed and his bloody rampage is now, forever gone...He was plotting attacks against Americans, but now we’ve ensured his atrocities have been stopped for good.”

These lines were met with roaring applause by the packed megachurch. According to a report in the New York Times, "they held hands and prayed. They sang songs praising God... They chanted “USA” and “four more years...”

https://www.krwg.org/post/stunning-hypocrisy-trumps-evangelical-supporters

Where is the sanctity of life in that act? I guess now the christians will parse the relative value and worth of various lives and assert that those who are killed by the death penalty, or those killed as enemy combatants, somehow have a lesser value and their deaths at the hand of man are justified. Kinda flies in the face of the sanctity of life schtick, eh?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5000

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB, So you won't answer the question? I sympathize. It is impossible to conjure up a rationale for support of a procedure that you believe will extinguish an innocent human life. That's what Biden is doing. Incidentally, he not only supports abortion, but now supports Federal Funding of abortions which presumably would result in larger numbers.

The whole point of this is to counter Justall's view that Trump's behavior is so egregious that it is disqualifying. He stated that the Bible tells him to steer clear of people who make a "show of religion" and that it "literally tells us to avoid such people, not make them our leaders." It is a pity he has withdrawn from the conversation, because I believe that he is sincere, and would be hard pressed not to concede that, on reflection, Biden's lack of principle is even worse.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 2081

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it's "innocent lives". So not all life is sacred. Nods...uummmhhmmmm, understood. Let the parsing and qualifications commence!
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1541

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gybes a stickler for holding a man to his word. If Biden said something in 1973, by golly he should be held to it. Wonder what he thinks of Lindsey Graham sticking to his word. One word describes gybe, hypocrite.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16209
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a word for people who keep hammering their idea, no matter how little traction it gets, and do it in religious terms. Obsessive. They are a pain in the ass to work with on anything, because they're never wrong--just ask them.
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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 431

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
It is a pity he has withdrawn from the conversation, because I believe that he is sincere, and would be hard pressed not to concede that, on reflection, Biden's lack of principle is even worse.


No worries. I am still here ... just haven't had the chance to take the time to thoughtfully respond just yet. Will be back in play this weekend!
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe

I thought I did answer the question. Biden has stated he doesn't agree with imposing his views on others. Pretty simple. You find this unacceptable. I find it reasonable. We're not going to agree on how to judge Biden here.

As far as the funding of abortion providers, I think a review of a Stanford study performed in 2011 may be of interest to you. Apparently, when the US pulls funding on abortions in third world countries the abortion rate climbs. That's because along with abortions, birth control and prenatal care is also included.

https://www.scielosp.org/article/bwho/2011.v89n12/873-880c/en/


Your candidate wishes to abolish the ACA which, greatly, expanded access to pre-natal care, care to new borns, and contraception. Abortions continue to decline in the US as access to health care and education increase. It is clear that the Democrats provide more consistent funding for those programs.

I'm not for expanding the ACA to provide funding for abortions. However, access to first trimester abortions MAY reduce the number of later term abortions which would be something I would agree with. I just don't have enough data on that to change my view on that since abortion is such a hot button topic that I believe some compromise is appropriate.
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