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If still undecided with 2020 election
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR wrote:
For quite a few religious people, abortion appears to be an overriding reason for rejecting Democrats. That seems wrong to me. Doesn't Obamacare, as an example, arguably reduce suffering, even save lives; and if that were the case, wouldn't it have to be weighted against abortion? Or pollution; while the link between deaths and pollution is less direct, shouldn't it be taken into account? Or global warming?


MONEY.

It is great to impose your morality on others when your pocketbook is not affected.

The Christian doctrine should involve taking care of ALL of the less fortunate. Not just the unborn. At least, that's my take on it.

I am not a fan of abortion. I support any program that seeks to reduce abortions. Sadly, many religious organizations and conservatives oppose those programs. The Hyde Amendment in the ACA, currently, doesn't allow taxpayer funded abortions. I, completely, agree with that. But, the compromise is that we do need to provide access to contraception and pre-natal care within the ACA. Both shown to reduce abortions. We also need to provide funding for the care of children who suffer from birth defects such as Downs Syndrome. These programs are often fought by the conservative, religious, right and that seems to contradict the tenets of the Christian faith.

Which candidate for President is more likely to push programs that seek to provide care to those in need? I think the Trump Administration's current push to eliminate Obamacare should answer that pretty clearly.
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isobans



Joined: 08 Aug 2010
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't Biden's open support of taxpayer-funded abortion at ANY phase including infanticide (Google it) bother sincere Christians?

OF COURSE it's the woman's right to choose ... WHETHER TO SPREAD HER LEGS. Beyond that point biology takes over. Neither she nor Obama has the right to let a viable newborn die on the slab just because Mommy Dearest no longer wants it.


isobars 2020
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5000

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have all completely missed the point. This isn't about whether abortion is good or bad, it is about the character of the candidates. Justall made the case that Trump's behavior is disqualifying. I have contrasted Trump's undisputed bad behavior with what I regard as the far worse characteristics of Biden/ Harris. Biden has convinced himself that it is OK to extinguish human life in large numbers. It is the height of hypocrisy and clearly demonstrates that he is unprincipled. There may be many reasons to favor Biden over Trump. Character is not one of them.

CB, The Catholic Church is the largest provider of assistance to disadvantaged people in the world. Tens of thousands of Catholics dedicate their lives to helping those less fortunate, often at great personal risk. You would have seen that first hand if you had spent as much time as I have in the 3rd world. Other religious organizations perform similar work. You may wish to do some research before offering disparaging comments.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 8572
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever the case may be , the voters will decide in 27 days....
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16208
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
You have all completely missed the point. This isn't about whether abortion is good or bad, it is about the character of the candidates. Justall made the case that Trump's behavior is disqualifying. I have contrasted Trump's undisputed bad behavior with what I regard as the far worse characteristics of Biden/ Harris. Biden has convinced himself that it is OK to extinguish human life in large numbers. It is the height of hypocrisy and clearly demonstrates that he is unprincipled. There may be many reasons to favor Biden over Trump. Character is not one of them.

CB, The Catholic Church is the largest provider of assistance to disadvantaged people in the world. Tens of thousands of Catholics dedicate their lives to helping those less fortunate, often at great personal risk. You would have seen that first hand if you had spent as much time as I have in the 3rd world. Other religious organizations perform similar work. You may wish to do some research before offering disparaging comments.


You have entirely missed the point. As a matter of law, in most countries in the world, an abortion in the first trimester is not extinguishing human life. In the Catholic Church, even masturbation is. The Catholic Church doesn’t run the country.

But gybe’s profession caused cancer. He needs to virtue signal.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10030

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Joe Biden's acceptance of Roe vs. Wade signals the fact that he respects the law despite what his personal position might be about abortion. In my view, that highlights the strength of his character, particularly as a public servant in government.

Sometimes I think that religious folks feel that their beliefs must trump and overrule everything in life. Yet, given the importance of the separation between church and state as outlined in our Constitution, we must remember that a public servant has the obligation and responsibility to set aside their religious beliefs when it comes to following the law.

That's seemingly a tough task for some from the right that want us to be a Christian nation that is ruled and rooted in the Bible, or conveniently, what they might interpret it to mean.
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1541

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there you have it. Gybe says Joes character is “far worse“ than Dons. I just barfed in your general direction.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4036

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe

You missed my point. You have applied a judgement of Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris based on YOUR interpretation of Christianity.

My point with many Catholics, and Christians in general, is that they are, often, selective about what tenets of the religion they accept for themselves. That's fine with me. Where I take issue is judging others on how they reconcile their faith with their work or their lifestyle.

The teachings of Christ are not compatible with accumulation of great wealth. Yet, you have reconciled this for yourself (We all have great wealth relative to the rest of the world). That is not a criticism. If you can reconcile your wealth as a Christian, how can you criticize Biden for his reconciliation of supporting choice?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3062

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Swchandler. And it certainly leads to why the right is so against Muslims holding political offices.

Coachg
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5000

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
You have applied a judgement of Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris based on YOUR interpretation of Christianity.

No I haven't. I have applied Biden's own publicly stated beliefs against his actions. How many times do I have to say it? He believes abortion takes a human life, yet he actively encourages the taking of that life. No one can wear two hats on this matter. If Biden, or other Catholic politicians, struggle with "imposing" their beliefs on others, then they should remove themselves from any position which presents that conflict, or distance themselves from the Catholic Church. To do otherwise in utterly hypocritical.

coboardhead wrote:
The teachings of Christ are not compatible with accumulation of great wealth.
Where did you get that from? Please don't embarrass yourself with the "eye of the needle".


coboardhead wrote:
....how can you criticize Biden for his reconciliation of supporting choice?

Explain to me the rationale that can be used to support taking a human life simply because that life is an inconvenience?
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