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If still undecided with 2020 election
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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 429

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: If still undecided with 2020 election Reply with quote

Iíve never talked candidates here Ö Eh, why not Ö

Since the President said he is working on campaign ads from the hospital today (and I wish him well with his illness), I feel free to express my opinions. If you still struggle with a decision, or know someone who does, here is one Christian-Republicanís take.

It is healthy for us Americans to factually debate the pros/cons/costs/benefits of policy: more/less social assistance, more/less government oversight, etc. I have always leaned right, thus voted for Republicans. But, two elements are far more important than policy: (1) preserving our US democracy and (2) living with compassionate strength

Democracies are fragile. Trump has threatened the very core of our Democracy by his questioning election legitimacy and encouraging voter intimidation* and violent groups to ďstand-byĒ. I will not be fooled by walk-backs, the message was loud, clear, and entirely consistent with the Presidentís prior statements and actions. If you value a democracy, your decision is clear in this election. If you favor oligarchs or dictatorships, well that is your choice.

For compassionate strength, I look to the Bible. For example, 2nd Timothy 3 specifically warns about people who are: self-absorbed, money-hungry, stuck-up, unforgiving, slanderous, and deceiving. It says such people will make a show of religion. And then it tells us to stay clear of them. To me this is a precise, check-the-box warning about Presidentís Trumpís behavior. It literally tells us to avoid such people, not make them our leaders. Even if you donít believe in the Bible, doesnít this just feel right? I have faced many pointed questions from fellow Christians about the above. Most of these questions are conveniently addressed here, if interested:

www.evangelicalquestions.com/faqs

IMO, we need to vote Trump out, and then use the next couple years to find a strong, conservative candidate Ö who also leads with compassion and who does not see democracy as something expendable in his/her pursuit of power.

God bless.

*States do allow poll watchers, with rules defined by each US state. President's Trump's encouragement of people to go into the polling sites seems to have intimations beyond this, to me. But, you may feel it was purely for vote monitoring or participation purposes.


Last edited by justall on Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1469

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your kind and rational thoughts justall. Too bad you wonít get any response or validation of what seems like basic common sense, from the conservatives here. Even the ones with so called Christian values. Guess the worlds gone upside down.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20004

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, it all comes down to two things:
1. Most of the BS we hear about Trump is exactly that: BS, more politely known as fake news*. How do we know that? By watching full-context videos of moving lips instead of blindly swallowing hundreds of disproved second and third hand tales presented as facts to unthinking Trump-hating myrmidons. What "voter intimidation"? Violent groups "Stand by"? Who/what the hell are the "Proud Boys", anyway? I can easily believe he had never heard of them. Who had until a few days ago, and even today who can write more than one sentence about them? Harris, OTOH, publicly and without embarrassment, encourages and praises Antifa and BLM, for God's sake, in spite of their having injured well over a thousand cops and murdered dozens of them!

If we vote Trump out now and the Senate has a democratic majority, the FAR left cabal will pack the courts and simply start decreeing by LAW, not just EO, the heinous things they openly demand, such as:
Open borders.
Amnesty for all.
Free medicine, education, health care ... EVERYTHING ... for ANYONE and EVERYONE including what are now in fact illegal aliens.
No more second amendment.
Effectively no more first amendment.
Limited choice on what we drive ... IF we drive.
Very limited policing, to be replaced by psychologists and social workers.
Suburbs integrated into their cities to bail out the latter.
AOC's climate insanity beyond our wildest dreams, possibly to likely including mandatory temperature settings (when Carter did that, I had to call ambulances twice for employees who collapsed in the office heat, and I stopped going to restaurants and movies), what we can and can't eat, her Green Orgasm, and much more, much worse.
De facto mandatory gun confiscation, merely beginning with guns that happen to look scary to Beto O'Rourke.
Emasculated military, making us a global target.
Riots and anarchy FAR beyond what we've seen on TV for the last six months.
Complete national lockdown until coronavirus no longer exists.
The complete, absolutely terrifying Sanders-Biden manifesto.
Far too many publicly stated and demonstrated objectives to list here.

2. As I've asked before, which harms the nation and thus the world more ... eating babies for breakfast or Marxism, communism, socialism, et.al.? The objectives proudly threatened from the dais on the record by Harris, Sanders, AOC, O'Rourke,, Pelosi, Schumer, et.al. ... and, oh, yes, Biden, as though that matters ... scare the living crap out of most intelligent people.

BTW ... what "democracy"? The men who designed, built, and codified this nation repeatedly, specifically, and presciently railed against the horrors of such a disaster, strongly and definitively wording their founding documents towards forming a democratic REPUBLIC. The distinction is both huge and vital to the integrity and longevity of a nation.

* My wife and I independently shut such lying fake news sources as NBC, the LAT, and more out of our lives in the 1980s due to their endless and provably deliberate outright lies about government programs we worked in intimately. They've gotten much worse, most of the rest of the mainstream media now follow suit, and we now ban the vast majority if them, including some Fox anchors, from our home for the same reasons. Want proof? Watch the full videos of what was actually said and done, then watch what virtually every so-called "journalist" on ABCNBCCBSMSNBCCNNNPRPBSLATNYTWAPOETC claims was said and done about damned near anything. After all, the ombudsmen of many of those fake news sources have publicly admitted that their networks are guilty and that they've had little success changing their bosses' behavior. What can we expect when >95% of their news anchors are staunch, contributing, unabashed Democrats? Plain and simple: if viewers can tell from watching a news anchor which side s/he's on, s/he is too biased to honestly claim to be a true journalist.


Last edited by isobars on Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 429

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
"democracy"? The men who designed, built, and codified this nation repeatedly, specifically, and presciently railed against the horrors of such a disaster, strongly and definitively wording their founding documents towards forming a democratic REPUBLIC. The distinction is both huge and vital to the integrity and longevity of a nation.

I agree with you; this is the right classification, and very different from pure democracy. I was focusing on unfettered election of representatives.

isobars wrote:
Watch the full videos of what was actually said and done

Completely agree. I do. We may have reached different conclusions, but I take my information from the source, rather than relying on someone else telling me how to think*. I even watched a pool dedication speech to figure out the true source of some weird press-delivered statements about one candidate.

Aaaand, look at that ... we presented our views without calling each other names!

*though, the biblical stuff has proven more difficult to review source material Smile


Last edited by justall on Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20004

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justall wrote:
I was focusing on unfettered election of representatives.

Aaaand, look at that ... we presented our views without calling each other names!

The ad hominem is just an hour away. The far left has proven thousands of times right here that it's all most of them know.

How has Trump or the GOP fettered or tried to fetter elections?

Look back and see what I added to my post.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9892

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justall, I have to say that it's refreshing to find a conservative Christian Republican here on this forum that sees the truth and danger of Donald Trump and can understand why he is essentially unfit in so many ways to be our president.

I can only hope that there are many more folks on the right like you that can hold to their conservative principles and values, but readily recognize that Donald Trump represents the wrong direction for this nation.

Yet, I have to ask, what you think of the many Republican politicians in Congress that have been subjects and followers of Donald Trump's willful siren song, and remain arguably divorced from the long held conservative principles and ideals of the Republican party? Should they be voted out too?
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2998

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justall,

I'm an independent but like you tend to vote towards the right. I'm not a fan of big government but I also don't subscribe to conspiracy theories; in 2008 the left swept in to the house, senate & presidency so if they were going to take our rights that was their best chance. It didn't happen then & I'm not concerned about it happening now. And since communism went the way of the dinosaur a couple of decades ago I have as about as much fear of communism as I do a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

Over time I have come to realize it really doesn't matter who gets elected as both the left & right are fiscally irresponsible; they are just fiscally irresponsible in different areas but both have run up ridiculous deficits which eventually leads to higher taxes. I didn't vote in the last election because I saw no benefit in either candidate. I'm not a big fan of Trump although he is easy to make fun of & great for late night entertainment. Trump obviously didn't handle the COVID situation well but I'm not convinced Clinton would have done any better; because of the divisiveness of the politics in our country we were probably doomed to be the worst country to deal with COVID no matter who was President since we are the only country in the world that tries to politicize CV-19. I'm neutral on Biden & being from northern CA along with leaning to the right I am definitely not a Kamala Harris fan so from my perspective we were heading down the "bad choice" road again; take off another election. To be honest, I would have been fine with another four years of Trump or Biden as my life wouldn't change regardless of who won the election.

However, recent events have pushed me to vote; not for Biden, but against Trump. Like you the event is the attack on democracy; voter intimidation, voter suppression & a challenge to a voting system that I have been using for decades has swayed my vote. As painful as it was, I struggled through the debate & the message was clear; I need to vote this time around.

Coachg
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7838

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: If still undecided with 2020 election Reply with quote

Sorry dude but I'm not buying your take on voter intimadation....complete bullshit and the fact that you ignore the violence and thuggery that is far more frequent from the left is comical.. You also failed to mention an even bigger threat to our democracy, a party who does not accept election results. It started day one when dems chose not to attend Trumps inaguration. That same day 19 minutes into his presidency the Washington post headline reads "THE IMPEACHMENT BEGINS" the next few weeks and months were all about setting up Trump with a bogus story about Russian collusion, 3 years later and a divided country it ended with a big fizzle because it was a web of lies. Next the dems attempt to destoy a mans life(kavanaugh) with vicious smears and outlandish claims that all proved false, again only dividing the country more. Now in complete desperation the dems fabricate another hoax about Ukraine who star is a Trump hating POS who was working in back rooms with dem operatives,then Dems go forward with the most partisan and weak Impeachment in this countrys history...Shameful and disastous to say the least..

Dems are the threat to our democracy by far...

I do agree that letting Trump lose could be a good thing for the party...Trump loses, we win back Senate seats and House seats in the midterms, and then win in four years(Nikki)

If Trump wins we get a lot more done, including locking op a lot of obama scum......but we get slammed in midterms and lose in four years...That would be bad.. I'm not losing sleep either way..
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wsurfer



Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1130

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: If still undecided with 2020 election Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
Sorry dude but I'm not buying your take on voter intimadation....complete bullshit and the fact that you ignore the violence and thuggery that is far more frequent from the left is comical.. You also failed to mention an even bigger threat to our democracy, a party who does not accept election results. It started day one when dems chose not to attend Trumps inaguration. That same day 19 minutes into his presidency the Washington post headline reads "THE IMPEACHMENT BEGINS" the next few weeks and months were all about setting up Trump with a bogus story about Russian collusion, 3 years later and a divided country it ended with a big fizzle because it was a web of lies. Next the dems attempt to destoy a mans life(kavanaugh) with vicious smears and outlandish claims that all proved false, again only dividing the country more. Now in complete desperation the dems fabricate another hoax about Ukraine who star is a Trump hating POS who was working in back rooms with dem operatives,then Dems go forward with the most partisan and weak Impeachment in this countrys history...Shameful and disastous to say the least..

Dems are the threat to our democracy by far...

I do agree that letting Trump lose could be a good thing for the party...Trump loses, we win back Senate seats and House seats in the midterms, and then win in four years(Nikki)

If Trump wins we get a lot more done, including locking op a lot of obama scum......but we get slammed in midterms and lose in four years...That would be bad.. I'm not losing sleep either way..



Wow, you're so politically astute, NOT!!!

Your thought process suggests you are sleep deprived, or like Trump oxygen deprived!
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 1955

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
For me, it all comes down to two things:
1. Most of the BS we hear about Trump is exactly that: BS, more politely known as fake news*. How do we know that? By watching full-context videos of moving lips instead of blindly swallowing hundreds of disproved second and third hand tales presented as facts to unthinking Trump-hating myrmidons. What "voter intimidation"? Violent groups "Stand by"? Who/what the hell are the "Proud Boys", anyway? I can easily believe he had never heard of them. Who had until a few days ago, and even today who can write more than one sentence about them? Harris, OTOH, publicly and without embarrassment, encourages and praises Antifa and BLM, for God's sake, in spite of their having injured well over a thousand cops and murdered dozens of them!

If we vote Trump out now and the Senate has a democratic majority, the FAR left cabal will pack the courts and simply start decreeing by LAW, not just EO, the heinous things they openly demand, such as:
Open borders.
Amnesty for all.
Free medicine, education, health care ... EVERYTHING ... for ANYONE and EVERYONE including what are now in fact illegal aliens.
No more second amendment.
Effectively no more first amendment.
Limited choice on what we drive ... IF we drive.
Very limited policing, to be replaced by psychologists and social workers.
Suburbs integrated into their cities to bail out the latter.
AOC's climate insanity beyond our wildest dreams, possibly to likely including mandatory temperature settings (when Carter did that, I had to call ambulances twice for employees who collapsed in the office heat, and I stopped going to restaurants and movies), what we can and can't eat, her Green Orgasm, and much more, much worse.
De facto mandatory gun confiscation, merely beginning with guns that happen to look scary to Beto O'Rourke.
Emasculated military, making us a global target.
Riots and anarchy FAR beyond what we've seen on TV for the last six months.
Complete national lockdown until coronavirus no longer exists.
The complete, absolutely terrifying Sanders-Biden manifesto.
Far too many publicly stated and demonstrated objectives to list here.

2. As I've asked before, which harms the nation and thus the world more ... eating babies for breakfast or Marxism, communism, socialism, et.al.? The objectives proudly threatened from the dais on the record by Harris, Sanders, AOC, O'Rourke,, Pelosi, Schumer, et.al. ... and, oh, yes, Biden, as though that matters ... scare the living crap out of most intelligent people.

BTW ... what "democracy"? The men who designed, built, and codified this nation repeatedly, specifically, and presciently railed against the horrors of such a disaster, strongly and definitively wording their founding documents towards forming a democratic REPUBLIC. The distinction is both huge and vital to the integrity and longevity of a nation.

* My wife and I independently shut such lying fake news sources as NBC, the LAT, and more out of our lives in the 1980s due to their endless and provably deliberate outright lies about government programs we worked in intimately. They've gotten much worse, most of the rest of the mainstream media now follow suit, and we now ban the vast majority if them, including some Fox anchors, from our home for the same reasons. Want proof? Watch the full videos of what was actually said and done, then watch what virtually every so-called "journalist" on ABCNBCCBSMSNBCCNNNPRPBSLATNYTWAPOETC claims was said and done about damned near anything. After all, the ombudsmen of many of those fake news sources have publicly admitted that their networks are guilty and that they've had little success changing their bosses' behavior. What can we expect when >95% of their news anchors are staunch, contributing, unabashed Democrats? Plain and simple: if viewers can tell from watching a news anchor which side s/he's on, s/he is too biased to honestly claim to be a true journalist.


Talk about BS!

Let's take these one at a time. Define what you mean by "open borders". Give me a quote from any Democrat espousing "open borders".

No response = you are full of BS. Game on Isoangry! Laughing
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