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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
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Location: on earth
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 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| J64TWB wrote: | | The virus is encased in fatty lipids, which when dissolved, kills it. Your skin dissolves fatty lipIds very fast compared to plastic, glass, metal etc. Don’t touch you face GT. Learn it, live it. Wear the god damn mask when indoors with people. |
do you have some peer reviewed for us to see the decay rate vs the decay rate of aerosol/airborne is very high for decay rate vs droplets.
average human touches face somewhere 20 plus times an hour. again I put this peer reviewed data before. Have not seen the skin decay research.
Note it was found wearing a mask reduces face touching per hour, peer reviewed. They have not checked if wearing a mask reduces hand washing.
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Last edited by real-human on Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| GURGLETROUSERS wrote: | If your reasoning that touching infected 'furniture' is a main method of spreading this virus is correct Dean, (I accept your logical presentations of data), we may be in a dangerous situation that may be almost impossible to control and allow a return to 'normal' life.
As you know, rapidly increasing outbreaks are once again ravaging Europe (U.K. included) with the easing of restrictions on social life, and our government has announced a reversal of easing by banning gatherings of more than six people, either inside, or OUTSIDE. (Outside ridiculously impossible to comply with in any popular crowded setting where people follow outdoor pursuits.)
They seem to think just keeping people apart will solve the problem, but it will do nothing to prevent waves of people touching infected surfaces, in any interior setting. (Pubs, cafes, theatres, concerts, schools, university lectures, offices etc etc.) You cannot legislate against people touching things!
Nothing but total lockdown will halt the spread but that is NO solution. It simply delays the inevitable. Everyone hopes a vaccine will be the answer, but some are now running into problems with widespread testing, and none of them may be foolproof, or permanent in effect.
Does anyone have an answer, or are we facing a bleak future? |
We are definitely facing a bleak and expensive future with the uncontrolled spread of the virus in many countries. I periodically check the worldometers site because it allows you to arrange the data in meaningful ways. Two economies that are important in the world, India and Brazil have not done enough to control the spread, with 90,000 and 17,000 new cases yesterday respectively.
Leadership in the US and UK has been sadly wanting if we look at the number of deaths per million of population. For the UK that number is 612, for the US it is 586, and for Germany it is 112. Sweden, which is often used as an example for multiple reasons, has 577 deaths per million of population.
While infections are going up in the UK, you are still better off than the US. Yesterday the US had 28,00 new cases, finally dropping below 40,000, while the UK had 2400. With about 1/5 of the population of the US, you had 1/10 the number of infections. It could be worse. |
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wsurfer
Joined: 17 Aug 2000
Posts: 1635
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:05 am Post subject: |
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It's settled.
A quote from the horses mouth.
From Bob Woodward's book "RAGE".
Quoting Trump Fed. 7th
"It goes through the air," Trump said. "That's always tougher than the touch. You don't have to touch things. Right? But the air, you just breathe the air and that's how it's passed. And so that's a very tricky one. That's a very delicate one. It's also more deadly than even your strenuous flus." |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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hmmm a wedding at a bar, gee ya i have said the worst things are bars, construction, buffets and gyms. Well schools specially with younger kids.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minnesota-wedding-linked-to-at-least-70-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB18UaKL?ocid=msedgdhp
Minnesota Wedding Linked to at Least 70 Coronavirus Cases
| Quote: | The “large” wedding, which included an indoor ceremony, reception and dance, was held on Aug. 22 in the small town of Ghent, according to a release from the state’s Southwest Health and Human Services.
“Several people in attendance at the wedding have symptoms and have tested positive for COVID-19, but it is likely many more were exposed and could be infectious,” said the Aug. 26 release, urging people who were in contact with a wedding guest who tested positive or had symptoms to quarantine for 14 days.
“If you don’t know whether you had such contact, but you were at the wedding, reception or dance at the KB’s Bar and Grill that night, you should still be very diligent about limiting interactions with people as much as possible during the 14 days after the wedding, and be very conscientious about wearing a face mask and social distancing during that time,” said the official release. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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peer reviewed...
gee get it going to a bar is dangerous, restaurant, well take matters in your own hands, bring your own silverware, drink from a straw, wash the glass, table and chairs as you arrive. Do not leave the safety to others when you can do it yourself and be sure chair was sprayed and table. Do not go to bars...
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm?s_cid=mm6936a5_w
Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 Among Symptomatic Adults ≥18 Years in 11 Outpatient Health Care Facilities — United States, July 2020
| Quote: | Summary
What is already known about the topic?
Community and close contact exposures contribute to the spread of COVID-19.
What is added by this report?
Findings from a case-control investigation of symptomatic outpatients from 11 U.S. health care facilities found that close contact with persons with known COVID-19 or going to locations that offer on-site eating and drinking options were associated with COVID-19 positivity. Adults with positive SARS-CoV-2 test results were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant than were those with negative SARS-CoV-2 test results. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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more evidence to support my statement..
I have said this would be the case, but i heard it first from a friend of mine who is a MD staying at my place. I had told him how before there were any cases in souther CA and TJ when I flew end of Feb only a handful of people wore masks on the return trip and none on the first leg of full planes. I told him first time in my life I had to stand in line in the mens restroom for not the urinal but the sink to wash hands. He immediate connected the dots and said he was willing to bet the normal flus were going to be very low in his practice. IEwash your hands equates to less flus. again I have shown documentation that by cleaning surfaces they were able to stop most germs and that a keyboard has a germ load 400 times a toilet seat. And I believed that this would also translate to covid-19 in the same proportions, as I called it leap of faith.
Well some peer reviewed have come in 61% decrease in other normal flus ... I say because people are washing their hands and masks stop higher viral loads on hands in public places and people touch their faces less and if they do they deposit the virus on the outside of the mask.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm?s_cid=mm6937a6_w
Decreased Influenza Activity During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, Australia, Chile, and South Africa, 2020
| Quote: | | • There was a 61% decrease in the number of respiratory specimens sent for influenza testing and a 98% decrease in test positivity during the COVID-19 pandemic period (March 1–May 16), which may indicate that COVID-19 mitigation measures can prevent influenza in the US, but the authors emphasize that influenza vaccination remains very important. More |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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peer reviewed...
again pointing it is contact... In these nursing homes we can assume they were not special filtration systems in them as they would have noted that differential. To have such a drastic differential it has to be the cleaning routine and the serving of food differential. a 94% differential from rated 1 to 5 nursing homes... again if airborn it would all be equal unless a special air filtration system was within.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a5.htm?s_cid=mm6937a5_w
Association Between CMS Quality Ratings and COVID-19 Outbreaks in Nursing Homes — West Virginia, March 17–June 11, 2020
| Quote: | | During March–June 2020, 14 (11%) of 123 West Virginia nursing homes experienced COVID-19 outbreaks. Compared with 1-star–rated (lowest rating) nursing homes, the odds of a COVID-19 outbreak were 87% lower among 2- to 3-star–rated facilities and 94% lower among 4- to 5-star–rated facilities. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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While Trump has damaged the credibility of all governmental agencies, the recommendations of the CDC still mean something.
| Quote: | Tim Elfrink,
Ben Guarino and
Chris Mooney
September 21, 2020 at 9:32 a.m. PDT
The agency had posted new guidelines suggesting the virus can transmit over a distance larger than six feet and that indoor ventilation is key to protection against its spread. This is a point that many independent experts have also been advancing, and it had appeared that the agency had come around to their point of view.
But the guidelines were removed late this morning because “that does not reflect our current state of knowledge,” a top CDC official said.
This is a developing story and will be updated
For months, scientists and public health experts have warned of mounting evidence that the novel coronavirus is airborne, transmitted through tiny droplets called aerosols that linger in the air much longer than the larger globs that come from coughing or sneezing.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention agrees. The CDC recently changed its official guidance to note that aerosols are “thought to be the main way the virus spreads” and to warn that poorly ventilated indoor spaces are particularly dangerous. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| mac wrote: | While Trump has damaged the credibility of all governmental agencies, the recommendations of the CDC still mean something.
| Quote: | Tim Elfrink,
Ben Guarino and
Chris Mooney
September 21, 2020 at 9:32 a.m. PDT
The agency had posted new guidelines suggesting the virus can transmit over a distance larger than six feet and that indoor ventilation is key to protection against its spread. This is a point that many independent experts have also been advancing, and it had appeared that the agency had come around to their point of view.
But the guidelines were removed late this morning because “that does not reflect our current state of knowledge,” a top CDC official said.
This is a developing story and will be updated
For months, scientists and public health experts have warned of mounting evidence that the novel coronavirus is airborne, transmitted through tiny droplets called aerosols that linger in the air much longer than the larger globs that come from coughing or sneezing.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention agrees. The CDC recently changed its official guidance to note that aerosols are “thought to be the main way the virus spreads” and to warn that poorly ventilated indoor spaces are particularly dangerous. |
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mounting evidence, please do tell... there is not one study that i have found and has been posted here that demonstrates it. In fact the china bullet train is a great example of not airborne. You can not sit in front of an infected person and next to then for an average of 2 hours and not get sick if airborne.
Here is another new one peer reviewed of a plane, which planes have hepa filters, and two people not even in the business class caught it, or was it a magic bullet.. It was contact and the contact person in business class had to be the flight attendants that also got sick. she touched the chair back if the infected person or the food tray and then handed out things to those nearby, untill the concentration was to low.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299-f1
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299_article
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/09/21/risk-of-covid-19-transmission-on-long-flights-is-real-and-could-be-superspreader-events-says-cdc-study/
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14884
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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people are confusing how a facemask primarily protects us. It minimized the hands ability to touch your mouth or nose in high risk situations.
The peer reviewed number of times a person touches their face an hour is over 20. With a mask on you can not get contact from hand to mouth and or nose till you take it off. So in high risk areas that is all you need. can someone give me peer reviewed that ruled out contact potentials to come to that conclusion, remember a keyboard has 400 times more germs than a toilet seat. So that should translate to this virus.
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