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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8761

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic, now Russia can spend a couple of trillion dollars
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 1965

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
vientomas wrote:
nw30 wrote:
So Code Pink, and all the other anti-war types gets their way, and the liberals freak out.
So apparently the liberals now want the U.S. to be the world's police.
Pretty easy to equate this pull-out with the Viet Nam pull-out, we promised the S. Vietnamese many things that we didn't uphold. Should we have stayed in Viet Nam?


You apply labels to simplify your world view into a binary system. The world and the people who inhabit it are diverse, even people within the same self identified group. I'm a liberal, but I believe the US assistance given to the Kurds to fight ISIS was appropriate. I also believe that the time, money and treasure given to that endeavor has now been wasted. I'm also a fiscal conservative and a human being. I'm not happy with money and lifes now wasted due to Trump's decision. Other than bringing home a small group of soldiers, volunteer soldiers mind you, what benefit is there to the US from the withdrawal?



Other than a small group soldiers????????????? did you really say that??

Volunteers are expendable????


Not expendable idiot...try reading what I wrote. Let me quote it for you: "I'm not happy with money and lifes now wasted due to Trump's decision." Understand dummy? The point is, when a citizen volunteers to serve in the military, they go where the are told to go, and what to do they are told to do, without question. That's the job. Trump's poor decision had absolutely nothing to do with bring soldiers home. Did you act like a dove during the Iraq War? No. That's your bullshit double standard on display.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6467
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
nw30 wrote:
mac wrote:
Does Vietnam have anything to do with poor judgement over Syria?

Trolls try to divert attention from the latest Trump mistake or corruption. That's what they do when they have no knowledge and no coherent argument.
Quit your sobbing, you just now did what you accuse me of doing. I'm talking historical context, and you don't like it.
How about you, do you think we should have stayed in Viet Nam?


No coherent argument. The name of the country is Vietnam. Is nitwit one or two words?
You wimped out on the question also, you chose to hide behind your teacher's skirt instead. No guts, only cheap obfuscation.
Should I be surprised at either one of you? Fuck no.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15711
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, Bard shows he is a thief and a coward--and relies on Fox news for his morning brain washing. His source for this quote--unattributed, as usual, is Buck Sexton, a conservative talk house. It was reported by Brian Kilmeade on Fox and Friends, and was readily found here: https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-host-pivots-calling-trumps-syria-move-disaster-slamming-democrats-medias-outrage-1465303

If I said this was a dog whistle it would make NW's day. It is an orchestrated pivot by conservative media and politicians to divert attention from Trump's double cross of our Kurdish allies, and his doing the bidding of Putin and other autocrats.

The intent of NW and Bard in simplifying these issues is not to have a debate, but to quash debate. Obama's efforts in Libya, encouraged by Hillary Clinton, were a disaster. Our ability to build nations in the Middle East, where politicians can't even keep track of the religions and languages, is minimal.

But the diversion is intended to argue that we should take a lower profile in the Middle East--a position many across the political spectrum would agree with. The diversion is intended to shift attention from the recklessness of Trump's decision to withdraw troops without any serious consideration of consequences. The right has the illusion that Trump is distancing the US from foreign entanglements, a neo-isolationist position that was part of Trump's appeal. Instead, Trump's efforts are entirely related to easing the path for oligarchs to make money with fossil fuel, and spill a little to his minions.
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real-human



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 12210
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
Fantastic, now Russia can spend a couple of trillion dollars


moscow malibu barfie...

you are so stupid, it is top people including republicans that the media is quoting that are outraged,

trillions you moron, the usa is the country that spends more total than what top 7 nations total in defense spending.

did your russian handler know you were dropped on your head when you hatched?

_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6467
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac, you still won't do it.
Somebody should take your shovel away, you're digging too deep.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3826

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see three options in Syria. If you see more, please elaborate.

1. Keep the US force in place to deter and likely be run over by Turkey.

2. Pull out and try to negotiate with Turkey. Trump's plan.

3. Stay in place, send thousands of military and appropriate equipment, plus air power and resist, hopefully to deter Turkey from invading, but possibly starting a war with our NATO ally.

Lot's of folks saying what we shouldn't do (pull out), but not much about what we should do.
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vientomas



Joined: 25 Apr 2000
Posts: 1965

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I see three options in Syria. If you see more, please elaborate.

1. Keep the US force in place to deter and likely be run over by Turkey.

2. Pull out and try to negotiate with Turkey. Trump's plan.

3. Stay in place, send thousands of military and appropriate equipment, plus air power and resist, hopefully to deter Turkey from invading, but possibly starting a war with our NATO ally.

Lot's of folks saying what we shouldn't do (pull out), but not much about what we should do.


Oh I don't know Techno, what about Trump's original plan?

The US intends to maintain an open-ended military presence in Syria, not only to fight Isis and al-Qaida but also to provide a bulwark against Iranian influence, ensure the departure of the Assad regime and create conditions for the return of refugees, the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, said on Wednesday.

The new Syria policy, outlined by Tillerson in a speech at Stanford University, represents a significant expansion of US aims in the country, which the Trump administration had previously restricted to counter-terrorism throughout its first year in office.

It had been unclear for some time how a strictly limited counter-terrorism role squared with Trump’s stated goal of containing Iranian influence, or how it would give the US clout at negotiations over Syria’s political future.

Tillerson’s speech suggested that as Russia drew down its military presence, the US would expand its own. How far it is ready to risk troops and invest resources in the policy remains far from clear.

Tillerson also appeared to row back on reports that Washington is working to establish a 30,000-strong border security force in northern Syria with the involvement of Kurdish militias – a plan that incensed Turkey.


Erdoğan accuses US of planning to form 'terror army' in Syria
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“That entire situation has been misportrayed, misdescribed, some people misspoke. We are not creating a border security force at all,” Tillerson said, telling reporters he had met Turkey’s foreign minister in Vancouver on Tuesday to clarify the issue.

Tillerson’s comments came as the number of internal refugees fleeing fighting in Idlib has more than doubled in the last week, to 212,000 people, in an escalating humanitarian crisis that officials have warned could spur a new migration wave.

In his Stanford speech, Tillerson laid out five US goals in Syria: the defeat of Isis and al-Qaida, a UN-brokered resolution for Syria that involved Bashar al-Assad’s departure, a curb on Iran, conditions for the safe return of refugees, and the complete elimination of remaining chemical weapons.

While the focus of US military effort thus far has been on Isis, Tillerson warned: “Al-Qaida is still a grave threat and is looking to reconstitute in new and powerful ways.

“Additionally, a total withdrawal of US personnel at this time would restore Assad and continue his brutal treatment of his own people,” the secretary of state continued. The Trump administration has vacillated on whether regime change had be part of any political process. In this speech, Tillerson signalled the US would insist on Assad’s departure.

“A murderer of his own people cannot generate the support required for long-term stability,” he said. “A stable, unified and independent Syria ultimately requires post-Assad leadership in order to be successful.”


Trump fires Tillerson: president swings axe after series of policy clashes
Read more
Tillerson also made clear for the first time that one of the objectives of a sustained military presence would be to disrupt what the US, Israel and their allies see as an Iranian strategy to control a large swath of the Middle East, from Afghanistan to Lebanon, in which Syria is key.

“US disengagement from Syria would provide Iran the opportunity to further strengthen its position in Syria,” Tillerson said. “As we have seen from Iran’s proxy wars and public announcements, Iran seeks dominance in the Middle East. As a destabilised nation and one bordering Israel, Syria presents an opportunity that Iran is all too eager to exploit.”

Although he denied that the US was about to embark once more on nation-building, Tillerson acknowledged that as long as Syrian refugees did not feel safe enough to go home, the Syrian conflict would continue to destabilise the Middle East and Europe. Thus, the US presence would also be geared to creating the conditions for safe return.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/17/us-military-syria-isis-iran-assad-tillerson

Again, does anyone here read anything outside of your echo chamber?
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 8761

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

update: A deal has been reached for Turkey to suspend military operations in northern Syria, as Vice President Pence has confirmed in a briefing to reporters. "A pause in military operations for 120 hours" - or 5 days - while the US facilitates an "orderly withdrawal" of its forces as well as partner SDF Kurdish forces outside a 20-mile 'safe zone' will take effect based on Thursday's meeting with President Erdogan, Pence said.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 15711
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalibuGuru wrote:
update: A deal has been reached for Turkey to suspend military operations in northern Syria, as Vice President Pence has confirmed in a briefing to reporters. "A pause in military operations for 120 hours" - or 5 days - while the US facilitates an "orderly withdrawal" of its forces as well as partner SDF Kurdish forces outside a 20-mile 'safe zone' will take effect based on Thursday's meeting with President Erdogan, Pence said.


Wrong, according to Turkey. But Bard is rarely in doubt, rarely correct, and the champion of fake news.

How are those peanuts tasting?
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