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2nd (Lightwind) Board Advice Needed
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 302

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost anything 80+ wide and 135L+ volume would work. Until my kids are out of the house, I'm using a BIC Nova, which is the heavy padded deck version of BIC Techno 160 with a center fin slot which you can plug up. Although a bit sluggish at 24 lb, with a good fin this board is great for blasting with an 8.0 free ride sail in light wind conditions until I can switch to 115L. Would NOT suggest this particular model, as I have not yet figured out a way to set it up so that it does not spray me directly in the face going over chop (not just me, I asked someone else who has this board).
Although your 110 is possibly wide enough to support an 8.4, it may be difficult to uphaul because of the weight of the rig, although 8.4 winds may be flat water where you are. Water starting a big sail on an undersized board requires a bit more precision in all the steps.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2271
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something in the 140ltr range should be just the ticket for a 160 pounder
on an 8.4. Perfect for 10-14MPH though there'll be a lot of pumping to get planed in 10.

I've said it before, but at 185 lbs with a 9.5 and a 150ltr board, I can
plane around all day in 10-14. So you should be able to do so with
the gear you've seen recommended here. I would recommend freeride
over slalom, because I like the jibing better, and the lightest stuff you
you can get without pain(carbon booms and high carbon mast essential).
It will likely be a dedicated rig though. I got killer deals and spent
about $1500 on used gear of this ilk, and it works great, until about 17MPH,
then it's unwieldy, and hard to watertsart (but also hard to uphaul).
It's great fun, but I haven't ridden it in about 5 years now, preferring to spend my time in a location with more wind.

-Craig
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a foil before I could carve a gybe and it was 100% the right choice. I got it when they were first coming out (early 2018) and nobody really knew what a "good" foil was supposed to handle like, especially not a beginner friendly one.
Learning to gybe the foil has been the absolute best training for carving on my regular boards, especially the smaller wave boards.
My usual after work spot is very gusty and side-offshore. I've ridden a fin there but it requires constant vigilance to stay upwind with long periods of slogging followed by being overpowered.
The upwind capabilities of the foil offer so much more room to gybe without worrying about losing ground and you can punch through extremely deep lulls. Likewise uphauling a given board is far easier with the foil, especially when taking into account the smaller sail sizes.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
i have lots of concerns about foiling

1. depth problems

2. health problems: the estuary muck has lots of nasties that get on foils. then when one gets cut by the foil by some mishap, infections follow.

3. more nuts and bolts to maintain: read more techy pain in the ass crap.

4. similar dead feeling i got from double luff sails now coming from the board instead


totally agree with first 3.
can't say nothing about the fourth because never tried foiling.

can also add:

5. I am intermediate windsurfer, I have so much room to improve, why should I waste my precious time on something else than windsurfing? I don't even eat even if hungry when it is blowing. my windy season is short

6. learning curve. I have couple friends, who are way better than me in regular windsurfing. I remember last year one of them went out on the foil. I started using him as a jybing mark and then I shouted - now you know how I feel!! there was a good laugh on the water Smile And after a year he still working on his foiling jybes

the second friend who is really really good, 100% of jybes planning out full speed, sails about 100 days a year, Maui, Gorge, lived long in South Africa, naturally born wsrfr. After second year he does 70% of his foiling jybes, and 30% he touches the water in the jybe.

7. why do I HAVE to do it?? does industry learned anything from 30 year ago debacle. Oh look Robby on short board at Hookipa, you can do the same. Now Kai Lenny, foiling this, foiling that, surfing and paddle and distance - you should do the same! Should I start spending all my time with wingfoil or whatever it is called?? It is so easy! Do I have to upgrade to Apple phone v. 25.3 ?? Do I have to become a gay, it is so fashionable, or at least change my gender? or at the very least start introducing myself as Andrew (he/his/him)?

Do whatever you want, don't gaslight me!

8. carrying problem

9. $$ problems

Thanks but no thanks. And when the topic has a caption about foiling - I just simply skip it.
But when clearly windsurfing topic is converted into foiling discussion, over and over - this just simply kills this forum.
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
mmclimbhigh,

I had two light wind days this week with winds speeds from 5 mph gusting to maybe 20 mph. One day I foiled with a 5.7 rig and freeride foil, the other windsurfed my 85 cm slalom board with a 7.6 race sail. Both days with GPS to compare. Mostly passive planing with a little pumping here & there. Max speed on the foil was 18 mph with an average of around 10 mph and a max 500 meter average of 15 mph. Max speed on the slalom board was 30 mph with an average of around 7 mph and a max 500 meter average of 23 mph.

I enjoyed both sessions.

Coachg


coach exactly!

I had a session with this other friend, who is naturally born and after 100 days or so does about 80% of his foiling jybes without touching water, expert level like you.

So he was on 5.7 Hucker and I on 7.0 Retro and Ray 145, 81 wide. Sorry, no idea about the brand or wingspan, or area or mast of his foil, but it was impressive combination of three machetes.

We both were slightly underpowered. We both had great time. There were periods when he was up and I was just pumping. And there were couple runs when I cleaned him. And we had great laughter on the beach afterwards.

And I must say that no matter how many days in my remaining life I'd spend wsrfng or learning to foil he will be much much better windsurfer and foiler.

The same applies to your comparison. You can do one day on this and another day on that and have fun on both because you are an expert. I am not and I am happy , without a foil. And it looks to me that OP is in the same boat as me, I may be wrong of course and perhaps he was asking about what foil to buy and why foil is better Smile
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alap



Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

last thing, and not about foiling.
About light air wsrfng.

yesterday. I had four hours, beautiful time on my 30+ years FUC with 7.0 Retro.

8.5 ready on shore with Ray and Formula (we are renting the house in BC lake).
The local airport station was even telling 28 km , gusts to 40.
Wasn't that much on the lake.
At times zero, at times -2 (and I was hooked in - falling!!) And sometimes nice consistent breeze and few very nice gusts. In the gusts I woulda definitely be flying on 8.5 and may be even on 7.0 with active pumping, but overall it woulda be exhausting pumping session on Ray or Formula on both 8.5 and or 7.0.

Overall the FUC was a ticket, and I am so glad I bought it earlier this season.

I did countless pivot jybes, and those are different on narrow tipy longboard with a dagger than on wide modern slalom board. And those are huge huge fun. And may be challenging when you do it on a "wave", and it points downwind and starts the glide "down the line"

So 80+ wide or longboard for $100- from local classifieds will increase your TOW and will make you a better wsrfr on your windy day.
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mmclimbhigh



Joined: 06 Sep 2016
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great discussion gang! This is exactly the beta that I'm looking for. I'm with alap...I'm a progressing intermediate and I freakin' love windsurfing! I have no desire to take up foiling at this point.

It's kinda like my skiing/snowboarding analogy. I've been skiing for 40 years (a handful of those professionally and a good bit of those seasons well over 100 days) and I absolutely love it! I saw the uprise of snowboarding take away many good skiers. I've been tempted to drink the snowboard cool-aid, but I have so much damn fun skiing that I just don't want to use up any precious play time to re-learn how to slide down a mountain. I have nothing against snowboarding. In fact, I have many dear friends who shred the mountain sideways. It's all the same thing to me! We're not curing cancer here, just shredding around with our friends and having a blast!

I jumped on the old Mistral Prodigy dance floor today in a typical, light 8-12kt breeze. Much to my surprise, I even managed to get the beast up on the plane a few times. My whole point in starting this thread was to pick your brains about selecting a good option for this kind of a day. I love zipping around on my 110L Firemove on a 15+kt day... so fun! But, on a day like today, it would have been kind of lame. Just slogging and wobbling around. Uphauling a 7.2+ sail is a pain in the ass. And, with my limited skills, waterstarting said sail in a 8kt puff of wind is undoable. I can only imagine that the 8.5 would be exponentially worse. That is why I'm in the market for a light wind board. For a day like today!

I've been researching my options and it looks like I have some decent choices. Goya Carrera, Starboard CarveIQ, Starboard Futura, Fanatic Gecko, Fanatic Shark, JP MagicRide, Tabou RocketWide, Naish Galaxy, etc.

Thanks so much for your input guys. With any luck, I'll be able to find a used 140 Liter, 80+cm wide board for sale. Any body know of said board kicking around?? I'm amongst a dying breed of windsurfers here in the Rocky Mts. Most boards that I see available are 1000 miles away. Oh well, I'm willing to drop the $$ for shipping, etc.

Thanks again! Cheers
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1212

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmclimbhigh wrote:
I jumped on the old Mistral Prodigy dance floor today in a typical, light 8-12kt breeze. Much to my surprise, I even managed to get the beast up on the plane a few times. My whole point in starting this thread was to pick your brains about selecting a good option for this kind of a day.


If 8-12 knot is your typical wind, then I think you're a bit on the wrong track. You're relatively light, but the 8.5 / 80 cm board combo will only get you planing at the upper end of the range. If you look at the article in Surf that coachg had summarized, they give these wind minima:

Freeride XL: 13 knots passive, 11 knots pumping
Raceboard: 12 knots passive, 8-9 knots pumping
Large foil: 11 knots passive, 7-8 knots pumping

They have a few other categories that get going early (Slalom LW, Formula), but these would require more skills and/or bigger sails.

I've done the freeride XL route for many years. I also have a few long/raceboards (older ones: Lightning, Cat, Equipe), and a large foil. I think their wind numbers are spot on. I'd add that longboards/raceboards also have the "semi-planing" state which is a lot more fun than slogging a freeride XL or foil board. At your weight, a 220 l board like the Fanatic Ultra Cat or a Mistral Equipe would be big enough, and the best match for the wind range you mentioned if you exclude foiling. Decent boards in that category can often be found for $100-$400.

Personally, I'm currently in the foil camp. I had a nice flatwater freeride session on 5.0 two days ago, and a foil session with a 5.6 in big chop yesterday. Speed on the foil was only half of the windsurfing speed, but that was plenty fast - I was actually holding back. Both sessions were fun at a similar level, just in a very different way. But when the wind is below 18 knots, the foil is usually more fun.

One thing that's cool about foiling is that most foilers see much more rapid progress than you experience as an intermediate to advanced windsurfer. It's often little things, like maintaining flight, extending the wind range, dealing with chop, or riding swell. Feels great, though. Foiling can be fun with a 45 cm mast - that's roughly the same as the fin size you'll need for the 8.5. But as others have pointed out, foiling is more for people who like to screw Smile.
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DelCarpenter



Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 433
Location: Cedar Falls, IA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Planning isn't what made windsurfing popular. I pity anyone whose local venue makes them think windsurfing isn't worthwhile if planning isn't involved.
2. 12-14 knots isn't "light" wind on an inland lake.
3. Decent long boards including even the 180L transition boards from the early or mid 90's (328 Bic Veloce for example), can make sailing in 12-14 knots a joy, not at all a slog. And bigger regular long boards from the 350 cm Kona (220L) to any of the top 90's long boards (Fanatic Ultra Cat, Fanatic Mega Cat, F2 Lightning, Mistral Equipe, etc., are even better at 12-14 knots.
4. I'm biased: my quiver includes a 380 cm Fanatic Mega Cat(91 or 92), two 350 cm Kona's (220L), an ancient Starboard Start Medium (about 200L), an F2 Comet (149L), and an AHD Sea Lion (135L) which is my only short board.
5. I agree planning is the most fun on a windsurfer (though foiling might have taken that crown). But, gliding on a windsurfer is also a source of joy.
6. Adding a gliding long board will add more joy (and more time on the water) for mmclimbhigh than any other solution.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2777

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 50 years of experience eating sashimi. My wife is Japanese and English was her second language but she refuses to eat sashimi. How can that be? I tell her she will have more joy eating sashimi than any other food at a Japanese restaurant but she continues to ignore me and eat other Japanese dishes. I don't get it. Shouldn't she enjoy sashimi more than other Japanese dishes since sashimi is my favorite? Everybody should like what I like, right?

Coachg
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