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Light Wind Option for joethewindsufa
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windward1



Joined: 18 Jun 2000
Posts: 1155

PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To each his own....
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ss59



Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the suggestion that a Starboard Phantom Race will plane in 8 knots - a knot less wind than the light wind Falcon??
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 775
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Light wind options for joethewindsufa Reply with quote

fanntom43 wrote:
Gregnw44,I'm curious what size fin you use on your Windsurfer LT with such big sails? Biggest sail I've used was a 6.5 with a 33 cm fin. I'm 180# and use a 9.0 on my Kona with the stock 46 cm. I'll often sail all day with the daggerboard retracted. Was told "don't need to use a big sail" on WS but you got me thinking!


fanntom43 - I've only used the stock fin on the Windsurfer LT. But again, when I'm using big sails (like 9 - 11.5m) I'm in light wind (like 2 - 10 knots, no higher gusts)... and I always have the daggerboard down (planning is not possible with my 200 lbs). The DB is big and well-shaped on the W LT. Anyway, I've always felt (in those light conditions) that the DB is way more important than the fin (on any longboard)... and it's always down... so I don't care too much about the fin.
That being said - if it was a windy day and I was reaching with the DB retracted... I'd care more about the fin. And YES, if I lived in a windy place and sailed a longboard in those conditions (with DB retracted) I'd definitely get a bigger and better fin.
Greg Smile

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Greg
Longboarding since '81
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2769

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg,

You should really look at the Slingshot Flyer 280 for winds from 2-10 knots. As I stated at the beginning of this Topic the Flyer was not tested. I have sailed the LT & the Flyer in similar winds. I am faster & point higher with a 5.6 freestyle sail on the Flyer than I am with a 7.2 freeride sail on the LT.

Coachg
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jlooby



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree with the test results (I have spoken to JoetheWindsurfer as well offline about this).
I've tried formula/big slalom/sb phantom and now foil (ss 84 wing).

The foil wins!
Reason - it's very easy (once you get the hang of it).
Go out from 7kts + and go upwind / downwind / anywhere (with very little pull from the sail).

If you sail in less than ideal conditions (light wind, gusty) the foil gets you a lot of time on the water.
I have doubled my days on the water because of the foil (great lakes).

Now; is foiling better than a perfect sideshore 20 knot wind on Lake Huron - no; but we only get those a few times a year (and I still fin sail them).

Once you are on the foil they just keep going and even when overpowered it is manageable (you just sheet out all the way!).

I am constantly amazed of how much sail range you get on the foil - my quiver for foiling could easily be 8.2 / 5.8 / 4.0.

I'm sold!

My 2cents Canadian (=1.51 cents US)

Joe
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1210

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just did the WET Fall regatta. Almost everyone had switched to foils - mostly freeride (like Slingshot, Naish, NP Glide), with 2-3 race foils. Just 4 longboards - on Ultra Cat, one ME 2, one Kona, and a Techno 293.

First day of racing had 8-9 mph averages on the closest iWindsurf meter, with gusts to 11-12. Everyone started at the same time. The longboards won the day, it was "no contest" for the freeride foils which barely every got out. The race foils (with ~ 10 m sails) foiled sometimes, but did not have enough power for decent angles.

The second day saw a bit more wind, with 13-15 mph averages and gusts a few miles higher. The race foils were foiling the entire time. They would have easily beaten the longboards, but had.a different course. Longboards and freeride foils had the same course The course was foil-friendly, with a short upwind leg and two long reaches. ,A women on a 7.5 and an Ultra Cat won every single race. A guy on a ME2 and 8.5 V8 came in second in 2 races, and 3rd in the last race. That was the only time a freeride foiler came in second. He was foiling for part of the course, but not the entire time.

Bottom line: in marginal conditions, foils need large sails to be competitive with longboards; freeride foils and small-ish sails (7.x and less) don't come close even on a rather flat course. The foilers all had limited experience, but the longboarders were not on the most competitive longboards or sails, either.

To be able to fly in 7+ knots and get good upwind and downwind angles, equipment of similar to formula size is needed: boards are similar, sails just a couple of meters smaller, and masts (100 cm+) are larger than formula fins.
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atlas.wave55



Joined: 24 Aug 2016
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlooby wrote:
Totally agree with the test results (I have spoken to JoetheWindsurfer as well offline about this).
I've tried formula/big slalom/sb phantom and now foil (ss 84 wing).

The foil wins!
Reason - it's very easy (once you get the hang of it).
Go out from 7kts + and go upwind / downwind / anywhere (with very little pull from the sail).

If you sail in less than ideal conditions (light wind, gusty) the foil gets you a lot of time on the water.
I have doubled my days on the water because of the foil (great lakes).

Now; is foiling better than a perfect sideshore 20 knot wind on Lake Huron - no; but we only get those a few times a year (and I still fin sail them).

Once you are on the foil they just keep going and even when overpowered it is manageable (you just sheet out all the way!).

I am constantly amazed of how much sail range you get on the foil - my quiver for foiling could easily be 8.2 / 5.8 / 4.0.

I'm sold!

My 2cents Canadian (=1.51 cents US)

Joe


Totally agree Joe.
My quiver is 7.8, 6, 5.2 ,4.2 and I probably could get away without the 5.2 because of my 6ms range. On gusty small lakes foils are the best option and give you the best VMG in crap conditions. With a big wing you can go so slow and stay up on foil- it's unfair.

I use a 7.8m in light wind and get foiling at around 7kts and can foil through 5/6 kts @145lbs with active pumping. I was in conditions recently that was flat water with 12-4kts on a 6m sail and was foiling 75% of the time. Terrible conditions for windsurfing but manigable and fun for foiling. I have never done a planing windsurfing gybe but by the end of this summer(first year on a dedicated foil board and slingshot foil) I was nailing almost every foiling gybe on my right side.

Imo the next best thing behind foiling is Formula windsurfing but much more one dimensional and physically damanding.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1087
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa here

out in light 20 kph winds yesterday with a GA Swift 10 m² on a Shark 145
felt like i needed a knot or two more wind and the two kitefoilers were flying

YES - foiling IS the answer to light wind
NO questions
one day I was out on an 8.5 and there were three windfoilers with 4.x sails
not down a size or two, but half the sail size !!

now if only I could find a used foil to go on my existing boards Very Happy
(that won't bust an existing fin box)


Last edited by joethewindsufa on Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4590
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, Shark 150 is for 13-28 mph wind.
Get a light wind board for anything less than 20 mph gusts.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1087
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I know that well
my windmobile died
Mistral Equipe 2 or JP SLW won't fit in my Prius lol
20 kph = 12.5 mph btw
and tomorrow hernia operation
so, HAD to get out !!
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