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Sailing after a heart attack
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wernerhickey



Joined: 13 Jun 2015
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would that include this "If you feel physically fit I would go now." - personally, I would get the all clear from the/a doctor (the OP has only a stock answer). You need more than feeling physically fit - you need "data" and doctor buy-in because feeling physically fit can be very misleading with heart conditions. Get plenty of advice
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5080
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wernerhickey wrote:
Would that include this "If you feel physically fit I would go now." - personally, I would get the all clear from the/a doctor (the OP has only a stock answer). You need more than feeling physically fit - you need "data" and doctor buy-in because feeling physically fit can be very misleading with heart conditions. Get plenty of advice


If anyone doesnít follow, the quote in parentheses is from my initial post.
You are correct that my opinion is loosely based on my own experience, on recovery.
I suspect that a all clear from a doctor would be a long time coming.
Since the OP seeks advise from layman, a person without professional or specialized knowledge of a particular subject, ie Doctor, cardiologist , that replies could contain knowledge ,ie the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association.
It would indeed be terrible if he followed my advise , an a life threatening event occurred.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19380

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Werner and Del get it. Not only do I not give medical advice -- not even in cancer forums where you'll find many thousands of my posts -- but I have consistently emphasized one strong piece of advice hundreds of times, in several ways, in WSing threads here and in other bulletin boards:
Do Your Own Damned Homework.

The vast majority of advice attributed to me in this and thousands of other threads is pure fabrication. However, when I challenge the fabricators, their response is uniform:

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19380

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvCali wrote:
BTW: even a cursory look at trials testing HIIT shows that (a) they are extremely small trials (as it is often the case for para-medical interventions) and (b) are extremely inconclusive. Ina quick search I have found no suggestion to adapt it during rehab, found a study (2018) that shows no benefit to reduce blood pressure for fit people, only benefit to reduce blood pressure in sedentary people but un-distinguishable from regular exercise, and another one (2017) showing zero benefit for people with cardiac failure with respect to normal exercise ...

Key word: cursory. Searching PubMed for interval training after heart attack produces 525 hits. Searching it for HIIT vs continuous produces 59. Searching for HIIT produces 986. There are scores, probably hundreds, of HIIT books out there. It's been documented for thousands of years.

You have some reading to do before you can criticize others' comments on HIIT, SMIT, or even just aerobics, with or without heart attacks, hypertension, drug-free Type 2 diabetes cure, strengthening muscles, and so much more.

I stand by, and could back up with hundreds of pages, every comment I've made in this thread and many other threads. I won't even try to comprehend why so many people openly fabricate things I've supposedly stated when the written record is right there at our fingertips. One would think they'd be embarrassed.

Waiting for a doctor (or entire world-class institutions) to cure us of almost ANYTHING is negligent, risky, folly, on both individual and national scales. That's proven daily at the individual level, and is the subject of many articles and studies. Doctors have hundreds (thousands?) of patients; each patient has but one. I could write a very long chapter on just my own personal (thus anecdotal) examples of proven BS from doctors including dozens of specialists, and many entire books elaborate on the problem.

For the 200th time: Do Your Own Damned Homework, mostly in published and well-supported literature. Failure to do so can ruin, even cost, your life.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5080
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on the question, is that the answers would be far reaching . Since itís not medical forum, what can one expect ?My take would be the same if I asked how to take the transmission out of my car, which of those who did reply would know something, nothing and several that would expound on that they removed 1000s .
Given 5 doctors the chart and medical history of a patient, one could very well receive 3.5 different answers, the other 1.5 would say I only install transmissions , not remove.

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J64TWB



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1263

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isobars, for one who never gives advice, sounds like youíre forcing a ton down our throats. My uncle had quad bypass, 25 years later and 10,000 cigarettes heís as chipper as ever.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9517

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if isobars has anything more to say.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2277
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I showed isobar's observations (not advice!) to a top cardiologist who happens to be a neighbor. She laughed and noted his response, while skimming the surface of one recovery protocol among a huge list, is evidence why cardiologists spend at least eight years (more likely ten) after college in medical school, residency and a fellowship.

Lay experience is just that. Individual, personal and not able to be connected to the treatment plan for any other person.

That said, the person seeking comments wants to humanize an experience that often feels terrifying and even mortifying. I certainly can relate to those emotions after my spine surgery. All I wanted was to hear that I'd be ok, the ungodly pain would soon end and I'd be on the water in 6-8 months. Would doing dishes threaten my recovery? What about lifting more than I was directed, or not eating in a way to maximize the "take" of my bone grafts?

My neurologist stated it best. He can advise, but my ongoing experience will direct the course of recovery. I suspect the same applies to rich. Best wishes in recovery!

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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1082

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
... -- not even in cancer forums where you'll find many thousands of my posts --


@isobars Oh I see, you are not only a cardiologist but also an oncologist. And I am sure you specialize in at least a few dozens different types of cancers. Bravo!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19380

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I HAVE had (and thus researched) four unrelated cancers.

I've been asked repeatedly to write a book on prostate cancer/PC. (I'd guess that >10,000 posts on it would fill a few such books.)

My world-renowned urological oncology professor/medical school dept head/surgeon told me I know more about treating PC than the vast majority of general physicians and many oncologists. He also told me the UW/SCCA/Fred Hutch national cancer center tumor board said they had learned some new things about PC treatment from my correspondence with them.

I've caught MANY oncologists and cardiologists grossly misinformed, decades behind the knowledge curve, and/or just plain lying to get my business. The Mayo Clinic, that same tumor board, and my regional hospital oncology clinic director all prescribed and insisted that I undergo a specific PC treatment that would have crippled me for life immediately or killed me in 2.5 years because the federal government Standard of Care mandates it. Of course, they all admitted it would kill me only after I confronted them with the data they all knew about. ALL TWO CARDIOLOGISTS WANTED TO KNOW WAS WHAT MY LDL LEVEL IS, as though that has any connection with heart disease. And most of these clowns want me on a statin despite hundreds of studies proving them not only useless but harmful in most cases. (I'll snip a few ... thousand ... pages here.)

If I had blindly accepted these specialists' urgent recommendations, I'd have been completely crippled and/or dead years ago, with NO BENEFIT, according to literally reams of research data and many of the physicians who conduct the research.

My niece, a physician, laughed at my claim that 75% (proven) to 100% (strongly suggested by the data) of chemotherapy patients get chemo brain. My data came from the country's (free world's?) leading authorities on chemo brain, the M.D. Anderson Cancer Clinic, which employs more than half of the nation's chemo brain specialists.(Your own medical oncologist will tell you the rate is 5%, despite the published data showing that virtually no one can still hold a professional job after chemotherapy! MRIs clearly show after just one day that our first chemo infusion isolates our prefrontal cortex from the rest of our brain, devastating our executive function (Google the term).

Again, I'm omitting literally reams of evidence, and base my comments on that, not on my own experience. I've studied multiple books just on the differences between anecdotal and statistical evidence, and have studied nutrition, exercise physiology, and medical treatment side effects literally thousands of times more than physicians normally get in their decade in medical school. The medicinal depth of their knowledge obviously far exceeds mine or most laymens', but its specificity and their impartiality leaves a lot to be desired (or depended on).

The vast majority of oncologists say treating my PC with high testosterone will kill me quickly. Tell that to the Harvard medical oncology prodigy whose published PC success records beat the success rate of the nation's surgical, medical, and radiation oncologists. Am I following his prescriptions blindly? Hell, no. Some of his patients, including me, have rejected and/or tweaked several of his prescriptions, and are still outliving many Standard of Care hawks' dire predictions by up to thousands of percent.

If Dan's cardiologist believes that LDL is our best measure of heart health or prognosis (it's not even correlated with, let alone causal, of heart attacks, and there are many kinds of LDL), she's part of the problem that originates from ONE (proven) lying charlatan named Ancel Keys whose falsified BS has driven the deadly, diabetes-inducing food pyramid for decades. Base our diets on sugar (grains, pasta, fruit, potatoes), my ass! Besides, SURELY his cardiologist favors the gold standard heart performance predictor/analyzer, the stress echocardiogram, over LDL? (I've had a couple of those, leading my cardiologist to say I will almost certainly die of something else long before my heart give out. He credits that largely to my lifelong HIIT activities and more recent escalation to SMIT.)
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