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tm00
Joined: 21 Jul 2000 Posts: 250 Location: Lake Champlain - NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: light wind foiling |
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can get up in go with my 6.3 in moderate wind (15 mph) but have a hard time getting lift off with a 5.5 in the same wind. I am using an RRD Avantride L as a foil board and RRD foil. Wonder if the board could be part of the problem. |
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Wind-NC.com
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi tm00-
The lighter the wind gets, the better your fitness, sail tuning, pumping technique, and your equipment choices need to be. Foil choice, board choice, and sail choice all make a difference, especially once you get down toward the 10 knot zone. Below 10 knots, and you'll be looking for ultra light masts and booms, too... and the pumping power and fitness of a pro athlete helps quite a bit as well!
If I remember correctly, the Avant ride has fairly soft rails and a pretty round outline. Most foil boards have more of a formula board look to them, with parallel and very sharp rails, and thick tails to aid easy planing release and quick acceleration. So yes, a foil board might make a difference for you.
So will pumping technique! _________________ formerly known as hodad.andy
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Wind-NC.com
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Also... Is there something wrong with using the 6.3? Does it feel too big or powerful once you're up and flying? Or do you just think that you should be able to use the 5.5 in that same wind?
Some tips for using the smaller sail: Slightly under-downhaul the 5.5 to get more tension in the upper leech, and expect to bob around waiting for gusts. Pump like mad in the gusts to get going. Once flying, you will probably be able to keep going through the lulls, as long as they aren't super light wind relative to the gusts. _________________ formerly known as hodad.andy
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000 Posts: 3550
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Is your moderate wind a 15 mph average or gusting to 15 mph? What is your weight?
Coachg |
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NOVAAN
Joined: 28 Sep 1994 Posts: 1551
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still pretty new to this. But it seems to me we should be talking about board speed needed to fly on the foil. Each foil requires different speed to lift at the same qiven weight. Surf, free ride and race foils. I'm using the sling shot foil and 130 board. At my body weight i need about 6 mph of board speed to lift off. If I turn off the wind and pump my board and sail I can get flying on a 5.2 in very lite winds. If I just passively wait for the wind to do all the work it requires more sail and more breeze to get the board going at 6mph. At 165 lbs. I'm finding going from my 5.2 down to a 4.7 doesn't require much more wind to get up to speed and on the foil. On the flip side, as my skills increase with time on the water, I can control that 5.2 in much higher wind and board speeds. With sail tuning I think one meter sail size jumps in smaller sizes and 1.5 jumps in larger sizes should be doable. As always any input from you foil guys will be helpful... |
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tm00
Joined: 21 Jul 2000 Posts: 250 Location: Lake Champlain - NY
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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I was writing about an average of 15 mph. The 6.3 sail work fine but I keep thinking I should be able to get the 5.5 going at that wind speed.
I weigh 150 pounds and can get the board planning in 15 mph (average) with the 6.3 so I thought I should be able to foil with a smaller sail for the same wind.
I have a feeling I am not bearing off enough when trying to fly the board with the 5.5. |
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000 Posts: 3550
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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At 150 lbs with a 15 mph average I would say something is wrong if you can't get going with your 5.5 sail. I weigh 170 lbs & would only be on a 4.7 or 5.0 in 15 mph averages. Mind you I'm not racing, just playing around & having fun but the math doesn't add up if you are truly in 15 mph averages.
Coachg |
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dcharlton
Joined: 24 Apr 2002 Posts: 414
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: |
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What size foil are you using? I found going to a wave oriented foil was a game changer for me in terms of lift and control. I went from the Slingshot H2 to the Infinity 84 and it made a HUGE difference.
DC |
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tm00
Joined: 21 Jul 2000 Posts: 250 Location: Lake Champlain - NY
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I agree that the math does not seem to work
I think I could get the 4.7 or 5.5 going when the wind fills in at 15 but I tend to switch to fin sailing when it is a little above 15 mph and filled in. I don't rig down but go with the 6.3 and fin. I think I need to rig down in to get the time on the foil that I need for learning.
Not sure I was clear on my one problem. That is getting on foil with a smaller sail for wind under a constant 15. By pumping I can fly but just for a few seconds.
May be on too much of a beam reach? The RRD Avantride? the foil? Or me not doing enough time on the foil.?
Foil in RRD Alu 85
Mast: 33.46" / 85 cm
Fuselage: 47.24" / 120 cm
80 cm Front Wing span: 31.5" / 80 cm
38 cm Tail Wing span: 15" / 38 cm |
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Wind-NC.com
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 980 Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Time (and/or lessons and advice) will probably be the best contributor to your success in lighter winds at this point. Next will be a more dedicated board, and finally a dedicated sail. This is as long as your current board has dimensions that will allow you to stand comfortably and well trimmed while flying along. If you feel like you're fighting it all the time, then maybe the board is too narrow or the mast track too far forward or fin box too far back, or any other number of random specs that can throw you off balance.
For light wind, I like to use the guys that pump their surf boards along in flat water and can do 100 yard laps on their foils, starting from a complete standstill on a dock, as inspiration and a reminder for how much more we can achieve with a bit of sail power at our disposal to help us along!
You can pump your foil just as well as your sail, and once you're flying, if your sail power goes away, keep in mind that some leg work can add a bit of extra juice and speed to help get you through to the next gust. Super efficient foilers will use both the sail and the foil to generate speed and keep it flying.
Bear in mind that your foil needs some downforce on it for it to keep generating lift- so if you're trying to hike out and put your weight into the sail, you're actually making the foil less effective. Stand up and ride the foil!
Also, if the board is dropping back down all the time, you may simply be settling in to the ride before you've really accelerated up to a good flying speed- Give it a few extra pumps and really get it humming right along before you relax. Many foils will start flying and give you a bit of a ride at really low speeds, but they tend to stall out and drop back down if you don't get them up to second or third gear before easing off on the throttle, so to speak... Once you're at highway speeds you can ease off the gas and enjoy the ride!
The RRD looks like it is fairly well oriented toward the fast freeride side of things, so I'm sure that it just has a cruising speed that's faster than you're going with your small sails. If you can get it humming along just a bit faster before you relax into the ride (with a combo of giving it a few more sail pumps and some well timed board/foil pumping), chances are, you'll keep that momentum and fly much further and much more easily. Speed is your friend on the racier foils.
You can experiment with going at slight upwind angles to try to increase your apparent wind, if you feel like you need just a tiny bit more sail power, or bearing off and trying to work the foil more than the sail, if you're heading into a really big lull. Look for little wave faces to coast along on as well- it can make a huge difference!
Anyway, I hope I'm not overloading you with info. This stuff is really fun and Lake Champlain is a great place to foil! _________________ formerly known as hodad.andy
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