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Rant: Dealer markup on windsurf gear
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4595
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any good sailor from 1986 on 1986 gear is still one of the best in the water today.
Just because YOU could not windsurf then doesn't mean the gear didn't work.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1223

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I windsurfed all up and down the west coast. lakes rivers and waves. I made that gear work as good as or better than most. I was sponsored by a so cal windsurfing shop. So i could windsurf back then. If you think 1986 gear was as good as todays, than live in the past and enjoy the ride. Who really cares.
It seems that you search for anything negative to say about a person or people that you don't even know. I feel sorry for you and the people around you....
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19271

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderately old gear canít be declared better- or worse-performing without specifying oneís criteria*.

DelCarpenter wrote:
(I think I still have the March equipment issues of Windsurfing Magazine from 91, 92, & 93. I'll look them up if someone wants to know the price of a board or sail.)

I don't know about list prices from that long ago, but
1) they now are essentially free, and not worth even that to me because their mast tracks are so far forward (which some Gorge sailors still prefer). Late '90s is a different story; many boards from that era flat-out RIP and SLASH and ride like clouds in rough water. I can't find short/wide/stubby boards that sail as well the way I like to sail.
2) Selected boards from the late Ď90s can still be found for $20 without even a scratch on them, and they work every bit as well as they did 20 years ago.

loopless wrote:
does anyone know what a sinker is anymore!

At least 20 of my boards are sinkers. I sail my floaters only when I have to because of crappy wind, old age, and/or heavy (prescription) drugs. Sailing a sinker after being on floaters is comparable to wearing just board shorts and waist harness vs fleece underwear, a neoprene (i.e., heavy) drysuit, a hood, a fully approved PFD, 6mm booties, helmet, 5 mm gloves, goggles, and a lounge chair harness cinched too tight.

NOVAAN wrote:
Spin out is a thing of the past. ... 20 plus lbs. board was lite.

Some of my larger Y2K board weigh 12-13 pounds, and my late model Exocet X-Wave trifin 103 spins out more than any other board I own even after several fin changes. Ditto 2- and 4-finned boards Iíve tested over the decades, because I wasnít willing to put in the time required to completely change my technique, I don't want to actually THINK about avoiding spinout, and I don't want to revert techniques every time I changed back to a more classic board.

*
Although NOVAAN came close when he wrote:
Tie on booms or clamp on that always slipped. Push button extensions that were frozen with sand. 10 sail quiver at every half meter. How about a chest harness. The first harness lines that would twist and get stuck in the hook. Just had to hope you weren't under the sail at the time. 20 plus lbs. board was lite. That said I did like some of the Bic boards. Boards had no pads [and were strongly criticized for having dangerously slippery decks]. No batten sails. How ever did we make it to where we are now? How did we survive that early gear.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1168
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New toys are awesome. When it comes to tools, some of mine are vintage.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4595
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novaan.. You, and I were sponsored in the 80's. Neither of us are sponsored NOW. Why?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4595
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Novaan..
1986, I got my first set of Seatrend 9' x 23" x 38cm ofo 13 lbs. Slalom boards.
1984, got my 7'6" Prodanovich twin fin wave board at 23" wide.
What's outdated?
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3310

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

margins, it's what greases the wheels of capitalism. without them, nothing much happens. want something else? maybe a move to china? provided the gov't will subsidize, right?
_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/
http://www.seanski.com/
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dcharlton



Joined: 24 Apr 2002
Posts: 375

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's taken me MANY years as a consumer to figure out if you buy the cheapest, you may save a little money at the cost of losing everything else.

I look at what my equipment goes through, punishing waves, high winds (although not as much as I'd like) and a really clumsy careless owner Wink all while balancing performance and light weight. Truly a miracle of free market capitalism when you consider what is available to us now verses 20-30 years ago.

I still wince at the cost of sails, boards, but I also recognize the quality, engineering and skill in what it takes to create them. I still look for good deals on used stuff and get lucky sometimes, but am getting better at just buying the best stuff. Some folks get a new car every 2 years, I treat myself to a new board, all about priorities.

DC
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5065
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel that the OP intent was dealer mark up.

Several have made posts that reference the cost of then and now pricing.

Using a cost of living , Cumulative pricing change calculation. The percentage increase from 1996 to 2017 is 56.23% , average 2.15% yearly.

I have the price tag on my F2 Zantos purchased new in 1996 22 years ago , it was $999.95. Cost currently of 2017 sale boards will vary so a average came to $1616.

This works to a 65% close enough, increase. Compare to the 56.23 % above.
The cost of stable things like milk, bread, gasoline , dont appear to follow this.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19271

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bud's early '80s Mistral PanAm cost him >$6,500 in today's dollars.

My Mistral Superlites and Equipe cost over $4,000 in today's dollars.

Many of my finest performers cost me ≤ $100 in today's dollars, and
MOST of my finest performers cost me <$200 in today's dollars.
I thus get to treat myself to new (to me, and often regarding condition) boards every time one strikes my fancy. There's very little luck involved; it takes a TON of research, time, effort, and assistance from my wife.

That also applies to wetsuits. My last Quicksilver super-stretchy, unobtanium-lined and covered, never-worn, perfectly-fitting, near-dry, steamer cost $60 because it had dirt on the arms from the factory (it washed clean). Thank you again, Second Wind Hood River.

If anything, I see a clear inverse correlation between boards' prices and the performance I prefer. The ones that cost me $2,000 recently perform better only in certain aspects. The other, even more current boards I've carefully selected and tried each year just have not impressed me. Silly me, but I prefer to pay $20 for fantastic performance rather than $2,000 for merely adequate performance. As with everything else, it all depends on one's criteria. I'm not into freestyle, I don't have ready access to glassy waves, and I don't consider a board's chronological age of any importance whatsoever.

Bottom line: Markup, schmarkup. It's not our problem unless we choose to make it our problem. If it makes the OP feel any better, my brother once worked in a menswear store that (successfully) sold mainstream shirts for 5 times what they paid for them. I'm betting Joseph A. Banks marks them up even further.
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