myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Are Windsurfing Hydrofoil interchangable w/ Kiteboard foils?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, in this case...and mine [I have the same lightwind board and 7.7 as DvCali], learning to foil is NOT the goal. The goal is 7-15 mph fun.
So, it's possible a SUP or wave mast with a big front wing is the ideal choice...planing in 7-15 with the tail of the board IN the water and using the foil to create lift so planing is possible in such light winds with a 200lb. rider and eliminating all those crashs from learning to foil with a 90 cm mast.
The gain from foiling with the tail of the board engaged in the water is safety, early planing just like foilers, and increased up and downwind angles over windsurfing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, you can choose what you want to do.
If you choose to use a foil to boost lightwind performance over windsurfing, you still gain the lightwind advantage of pure foiling without the crashes and learning time.
The dragging of the tail of the board only slows the speeds 1-3 mph, and barely affects up and downwind angles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1228

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, I have learned to control the 24 inch mast pretty good. The nice thing is that if you can control the short mast with out a major crash or injury,
controlling the long is much easier. You get to learn the subtle weight shifts required in foiling without the nose dives of the long mast. Some for the things that we do to control a windsurfer will tend to end in a crash on a foil board. I don't think windsurfing. Foiling I'm learning, not reacting. Some one here posted that it was hard to go windsurfing after foiling for a long time.
I'm heading to SPI in April. Been doing this since I retired. Its a shallow water spot. I couldn't use a long mast there on the lite wind days. However the 24 inch mast, while not perfect will extend my time on the water a bunch.
I knew going into this foiling think, I wanted to take it slow and try not hurt myself. Takes way to long to recover these days. Heck if i were 30 I would say get the short board and the long mast. Its only water. The flight school mast package is about $180. To me, well worth the investment. And when your friends want to try your gear, you can put them on the 15 inch mast.
My lake (Lopez Lake) is dropping water fast. having the choice of 4 mast lengths will have me foiling long past when the rest pack it up for the year...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1228

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thought about the short mast and using the foil to add a bit of lift to get you planning. And no real nose dives. That 15 inch mast would be perfect for that at SPI....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1072

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
Possibly, in this case...and mine [I have the same lightwind board and 7.7 as DvCali], learning to foil is NOT the goal. The goal is 7-15 mph fun.
So, it's possible a SUP or wave mast with a big front wing is the ideal choice...planing in 7-15 with the tail of the board IN the water and using the foil to create lift so planing is possible in such light winds with a 200lb. rider and eliminating all those crashs from learning to foil with a 90 cm mast.
The gain from foiling with the tail of the board engaged in the water is safety, early planing just like foilers, and increased up and downwind angles over windsurfing.

Twice in the last weeks I am slogging while foils pass by. I (160 pounds) on Isonic 111 and 7.3, the other guys, in two different occasions, 203 pounds on 6.2 and 180 on 7.0. The Isonic (slowly) passes them IF the wind comes up, and stays up, to powered 7.3. Overpowered the Isonic can hit 28-29 knots. Anything more and I do not have the weight to hold it. (I go faster with smaller slalom board.)

It is clear that the foil has the advantage for light air. For now it will be slower in medium winds but I start to suspect that it would actually be faster. A faster foil requires dexterity, while to go fast on a slalom board it requires body weight, that I will never have, and strength. The photo below pretty much sums it up.

I really doubt one gains anything with a mast so short than the tail is engaged in the water ... it is the worst of both worlds: huge "fin" plus drag from the hull.

I am ordering a Taaroa Noe Freeride to start. It is 80 cm long and it will go with a JP 120 foil or Flikka custom. We'll see Cool New little adventure Very Happy



a.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  114.85 KB
 Viewed:  3421 Time(s)

a.jpg




Last edited by dvCali on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1228

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool shot...Guys on race foils and cambered sails are quickly overtaking reg, windsurfers in speed and angle of attack in racing. Kids in the Gorge are doing crazy things on foils in high winds. Lite wind foils have big guys up and flying in 10 mph winds. It is a great new addition to sailing. I like it a bunch and have fun learning. Right now going 20 mph in 12 mph winds is way fast enough. That said, I will always be a windsurfer first if the wind allows. Its been a life long passion and I can't wait for the next windy day to do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually tail down foiling is safe, easy, almost as fast as full foiling, with equal angles..at least upwind, and still fly as early as full foiling. You can extrapolate any possible advantages as you choose.
Speed? Not close. Antoine can go mid 30's on special foils. He's lower 40's on production slalom boards.
Foils DO rule on sub 15 breezes. But, how many of you own boards as wide as 80cm, the standard for foil boards?
DvCali and I are the same weight with Isonic 111's. Lower limit is around 16 gust with 7.3. A bit lower with 4 cam 7.7 underdowned. You don' get overpowered in that breeze.
Foil can take you down to 7-14, or 12 with good pumping technique.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am learning on a 90 cm mast , a 75 cm width foil board and yea I have had some good crashes, but after 12 days on the foil I can keep it together and keep control of how high the foil is off the water. Seems to me the angst about tall masts is a bit overblown. You are going to end up on a mast 70 to 100 mm tall in a very short time anyway....and the taller mast gives one more time to correct a foil out mistake.

Just my 2 cents.

KMF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4604
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you close to 70, have windsurfed for 30 years, and sail where weed fins are needed and the average water depth is chest deep? That is Thombiz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 493

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am 69, windsurfed since 1988 need weedfins occasionally but the water is deep. I also have some experience actually learning to foil, so my 2 cents is worth something......

KMF

How bout you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group