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Are Windsurfing Hydrofoil interchangable w/ Kiteboard foils?
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4616
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it's possible to use kitefoils with ws boards, the foil does need to be mounted more forwards than the existing tuttle box, via Pp or adding fin boxes. Appears front wing COE should be near between feet, but some very good foilers run it at least 5" back.
One possible drawback of short fuselage kitefoils, after fore/aft location is solved is the smaller wing, needing more board speed to lift. Remember, the board has to be planing before the foil lifts..the board is planing.
With high area windfoils, earlier planing is assisted with the lift from the wing. Not so much with smaller wings, as board speeds need to be higher..so the needs start to merge.
Kitefoils can be small because the kite can easily creat 100 lbs. of pure lift.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1240

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO I'm a windsurfing foil "expert". Been out 8 times. Right. Anyways 4 guys at my local lake are windsurf foiling. To the man they all think that its best to get a foil board to learn on. Lots of reasons. Placement of all the parts being the main reason. We had one guy come up to foil and he did not have a foil dedicated board. He had the same Sling Shot foil that I have. About my size and weight. He rigged a 5.2 sail same as mine. The rest of us where up and foiling most of the time. He couldn't get his board up and flying. The main reason was his box was much farther back than on our boards. You need to get your weight behind the balance point of the foil to make the board rise up and fly. I think having a matching foil and board makes the learning curve much easier. I am by no means saying you must have this. But for safety and a less stress full learning curve, it might be the way to go. Being a older fellow myself I went with the Sling Shot stuff with the flight school mast set up. 15,24,30 and 35 inch masts. I have yet to take a major over the bars crash. Yet. I really learned a bunch on the 24 without having a slam. When i over foiled the nose of the board saved me. Stepping up to the longer masts , so far, has been pretty easy. My board is the 130 Dialer on sale at Windance for $749. About the price of a new sail.
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thombiz



Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 748
Location: Corpus Christi

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info about the mast lengths. I thought length would impact learning which you confirmed.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 858

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the slingshot Fwind1, which I don't particularly recommend, but I have used in on a few non foil specific boards. None were a major problem from an older formula to a wide-ish freeride that I swapped a DT box into.
If you have the skills to add footstrap inserts I'd just run what you've got for a board provided it's at least 72cm wide, preferably +75cm. An older board with a bit more nose actually makes learning easier.
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brand_adam



Joined: 01 Dec 2015
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Thombiz,

I have the Windance FoilWorks windfoil setup that I use with a PowerPlate on my Tuttle board. I also have a short fuselage so I can use the setup for kitefoiling too. I've had lots of hours on the windfoil setup, it's great,, but the planets haven't aligned for kitefoiling it yet. That said, the foil, is a copy of the Slingshot H2 for Fwind1 isn't that different than my previous kite specific foil so I don't expect a huge difference. It's definitely possible.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1080

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thombiz wrote:
Thanks for the info about the mast lengths. I thought length would impact learning which you confirmed.

... the agreement seems to be that anything shorter than 70 cm makes learning more difficult.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4616
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the goal here to become a proficient foiler, or is the goal to have fun in winds of 7-15 mph while planing and moving faster than 8mph?
I suspect the latter.
Add one old guy [ I'm 69], add chest deep water with weeds mostly anchored to the bottom with a few floating strands, and I'd suspect a sub 70 mast length IS ideal given the parameters here.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1240

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Things I learned foiling Reply with quote

Some things I learned while foiling...... The crashes happen when the foil comes out of the water. Falling from 24 inches is pretty easy to control. Falling from 3 feet becomes a lot more harsh.
The flip side is the short mast gives less time to adjust your flight height before you over foil and crash down. The long masts give more time to control flight. I can beach start my 24 inch mast but need to swim out a ways and up haul my 36 inch mast. Its harder to carry my board with the 24 inch mast inserted. The weight of the 36 balances the board to level when I hold the strap and the foil. Not a real issue unless you have a long walk to the water. Getting the board and sail into the water gracefully is a pain. The longer the mast the more difficult it is. Removing the sail from the board is the easiest way to get out of the water gracefully. The longer the mast the harder it is to do. The younger guys with good backs can carry the board, foil and sail out of the water in one piece. I can not. The rule of foiling is rig small. If your sail is large enough to water start, its to big to foil. At least for the beginner. I don't find this to be true. I'm able to water start in a pretty lite gust and still need to pump a bit to get the board up and flying. You will kick the foil with your feet and shins. The back strap isn't necessary when first learning. I would suggest no straps at all except i have no idea how you would carry the thing. At this point I see no need for a foil sail. My goal with foiling is not to have big sails and a lite wind board any more. My local spot has pretty lite and building winds in the morning for about 2 hrs. Great for big boards and a 7.5 sails. I rig a 5.2 and foil board until the winds pick up later in the day. At that point I can use the same sail and my favorite 96 liter board and go windsurfing. I'm sure the foiling gear is only going to get better. Most board builders are now offering wind and foil compatible boards for a one board, one or 2 sail quiver. Its really fun to be part of a new wind adventure. Just like 1980 all over again..
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4616
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easiest foilboard carry, and I'm 69 with horrid lower back, knee, and ankles, is flip board on edge, bend over grabbing both rails from the bottom side, lift board/foil atop head, fin first fin down. That's a 33 lb. unit with aluminum foil.
Hand on foilmast, other on strap, from bottom of board is harder to carry for longer distances due to load on board arm,
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1080

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
... and I'd suspect a sub 70 mast length IS ideal given the parameters here.


Other than the "training set" from Slingshot nobody really produces a wind foil with a mast shorter than 70 cm. The norm is 70-85 for beginner/freeride.

The problem with masts shorter than 70 is that you have no room for mistake. Sure, when you get off the foil because it breaches the water surface it will be from only one foot high ... but the breaches will happen all the time ... Shocked
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