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Long or short harness lines
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18692

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
How many DTL sailors are using the harness when on the wave? None that I have ever watched either live, on TV or on the internet. So I'm not sure where DTL sailing with a harness & straight arms comes in to play in this thread.


You made my point that straight arms are unique to sailing in straight lines, and Sayre took that a step farther and said that even in straight lines we don't want our arms straight. Go argue with him.

coachg wrote:
Somebody keeps saying something about choices. Hmm, who could that be? ... Do you really believe there is only one setup that works for all people?

That's been my objective for decades to oppose this forum's insistence that we must all run 32" harness lines, set our booms at face height, do freestyle tricks, step jibe, buy short wide boards, etc., that we can actually choose for ourselves.

coachg wrote:
Do I really need to explain to you that the vast majority of humans are stronger at pushing than pulling?

Maybe so (I don't know), but any given muscle can only pull. i.e., ya can't push on a rope.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2618

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
coachg wrote:
Do I really need to explain to you that the vast majority of humans are stronger at pushing than pulling?

Maybe so (I don't know), but any given muscle can only pull. i.e., ya can't push on a rope.


Interesting comment from a guy who said this in his 18467th post.

" Look at the difference between full pushups done with the arms compared to short shoulder-motion-only pushups."

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18692

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't tell me that you, as a coach, don't know that a muscle can contract, relax, and anything in between, but cannot push/forcefully extend ... thus the accurate rope analogy. You're just playing word games.

And as I stated above, I was comparing the range (you omitted that crucial part), not the force potential, of full (arm) vs short (shoulder only) pushups.

I once thought you were above word games and distortions. I guess not.
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kiethordrum



Joined: 12 Jun 2015
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject: Medium to short harness lines best for me. Reply with quote

I'm 5'11" and 150 lbs, I want to sail like the guys I see that look good to me.
And it's the guys standing upright, seemingly very comfortable. Their boards also look fairly flat on the water, not 12-24" of nose angling up out of the water.
Maybe this is the more modern style.

I am most comfortable with 24" lines. Yet most systems and formulas say I should be on much longer lines.
The main thing for me though is, the right spot at end of lines to get in and out of harness hook, without jumping up, or standing on tiptoes, and without having to bend knees down to get in.
Because I like my boom at the same height as much as possible on all my rigs....right at top of shoulders.

I use a seat harness, can't stand the squeezing and riding up of waist harnesses.

I see lots of older guys just cruising around with really low booms, leaning back, and lots of board nose up out of the water.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3132

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith said:
Quote:
Their boards also look fairly flat on the water, not 12-24" of nose angling up out of the water.

It's a matter of speed. Go faster and the board flattens out. If the nose is high, the tail is low, that means you are just beginning to plane. More wind, or more sail, or move your weight forward a bit.

I am 6', have 26" lines and the boom is chest high, also with a seat harness. If my boom was shoulder high, I could only hook in with strong winds where I would have to pull the sail over me and back toward the tail of the board. However, I like to be able to hook in while slogging by getting on my toes.

Something doesn't sound right with 24" lines, a shoulder high boom with a seat harness. For me, that would be a challenge to hook in and unhook. I do have longer adjustable lines (28-30") with my larger sails 7.4 - 11.0 because I move the boom up to shoulder height. I used to race formula and you have to adjust your lines between the upwind and downwind legs (short upwind, long downwind).

Generally, boom height and line length is something that each individual developes through experience. No set rules. I have been messing with it for 34 years.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3960
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On wider slalom boards, booms mid shoulder and seat harness. Slogging, the hook is about 9-11" from the harness lines. I can hook in and out by jumping 6" and pulling the boom arm down 4".
If you can hook in easily while slogging, you are inefficient planing.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Longer lines for the same board width, more outboard, can handle more power, more fin riding possibly rail leveraging.

Shorter lines for a more upright position, leveraging volume, lighter winds, more efficient planing, less rig swinging.

Lower boom = 24/26, higher = 28/32.

Simple, no Very Happy ?








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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2618

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
If you can hook in easily while slogging, you are inefficient planing.

Not necessarily true in all conditions. The most efficient sail is a vertical sail and line length determines your leverage over that vertical sail. Longer gives you more leverage and shorter less while keeping the sail vertical. In underpowered conditions I absolutely agree with you as you need to have shorter lines, be more upright and giving leverage to the sail. However, in overpowered conditions you need to be farther away from the sail to increase your leverage so being able to hook in while slogging does not make you inefficient in those conditions. A person with shorter lines that has to pull the sail over to windward is actually less efficient.

Coachg
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18692

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Go faster and the board flattens out. If the nose is high, the tail is low, that means you are just beginning to plane.


Izzat so?

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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this thread is in a degenerate state, but:

Don't long lines and the ability to "hang" more vertically put a lot more torque on the boom leading to more breakage?

I have been migrating back to longer lines to get more weight off my knees. It's working. Also had my first boom break far from shore.

fxop
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