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Step/flip vs. Flip/step vs. Flip/sail out switch
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Step/flip vs. Flip/step vs. Flip/sail out switch Reply with quote

I've been banging my head against the wall on planing away from step gybes for about 10 months. Occasionally staying on plane clew first with my bigger (130L/+7m) gear but never on it past the rig flip. Gybe completion rate on smaller gear is dismal.
Local conditions are steep, short chop with zero swell and gusty. Lack of power generally isn't an issue, retaining speed is.

Is it worth trying a different approach and working on flipping first? Just keep grinding until the pieces fit?

My eventual goals are freeride foiling, freestyle and waves rather than racing.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5139
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you've been tail heavy thru your gybes, try to be more up on your board (more weight forward) during your sail flip.
I don't think the timing on your sail flip is as critical as keeping up on your board, keeping the nose from going too high, it's like slamming on the breaks.
The sail usually lets you know when it's time to flip, and a quick millisecond sheet in for acceleration just before the flip can also help, but it's not often necessary.
So pay more attention to foot placement.
If it feels like you are about to get launched after your sail flip, that's actually a good sign, so be ready for that with bent knees for better leverage against it, then blast away.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1702

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not being able to see you, generally agreed with nw30's comments. If you can keep the nose down (ie not be tail heavy, keep your weight forward and over the carving rail) when the foot switch happens is less important, though generally speaking if you're in chop, switching the feet first gives you more control (which is why duck jibes are for smooth water.)

Exiting clew first is an excellent stay dry move (and choice in lulls) but not the test for the planing jibe.

lastly: 10 months? That's not much on the head banging path to planing through jibes. You're probably doing pretty well! Took me three years of obsessed effort. On the other hand, I suck (though I plane through my jibes now!)

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http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting weight forward is definitely the problem, as is a late flip because the pressure doesn't leave the sail (because I'm stalling the board).

The issue is how I get it forward. If I come further forward with my back foot I tend to get the front stuck in the strap frequently. Pulling down on the back of the boom as I open the sail before the flip seems to help with board trim but if that's an essential part of the gybe then how can you flip the sail first?

I've been windsurfing just under two years, this is the first time I've felt like I'm not making any progress. Everything else has sort of come along with a bit of practice.
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a fair number of video instruction tapes dedicated
to the jibe.
Peter Hart
Charles Dasher 12 step jibe
Guy Cribb

It might be a good idea to take a lesson or ABK Clinic

Also you must consider the wind force and quality.
and surface quality.

Doing long carving jibes in chop may not be the best way to get around.
They say look for the flar spot to jibe but there is no flat spot.


Last edited by ctuna on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3960
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As mentuoned previously, try 10 duckjibes, then go back to regular jibes.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctuna wrote:
There are a fair number of video instruction tapes dedicated
to the jibe.
Peter Hart
Charles Dasher 12 step jibe
Guy Cribb

It might be a good idea to take a lesson or ABK Clinic

Also you must consider the wind force and quality.
and surface quality.

Doing long carving jibes in chop may not be the best way to get around.
They say look for the flar spot to jibe but there is no flat spot.


Watched them all, at least twice. Unfortunately slamming into the back of chop is par for the course here, engaging the rail seems to help?

Duck gybes are a mythical beast at this point.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1702

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Unfortunately slamming into the back of chop is par for the course here, engaging the rail seems to help?


Engaging the rail is necessary even on the flattest water, but focusing on it in chop definitely helps. Try bending your knees much more than you see in the videos (Peter Hart quote: Bend your knees as much as you think you should, then drop your butt down a foot more).

Speed and less drawn-out turns are also recommended in tight chop. And switch your feet first...you need all the control and weight forward you can to manage the chop.

ABK is absolutely recommended.

As for watching those videos, "twice" is a low number by most jibe obsessed standards.

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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3960
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would estimate that around 1 in 3 windsurfers learned to jibe by failing to make any duckjibes.. or one duckjibe, out of their first 20 attempts.
Jibing is not reading a book. It's a feel that needs to be acquired, and trying a ducker is one shortcut.
Lots of sailors jump and try front and backloops before they can plane out of the majority of their jibes.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some (TWS, Sam Ross) are stuck on repeat.

I promised myself I'd plane at least one this year, then start on front loops next year. Fortunately I may be moving into an area with better conditions which should help.
Been distracted by foil only conditions lately, but in a way that's been good cross training since there is so little pressure in the sail. Perhaps I'll go for a duck on the foil.
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