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exiting power gybe with speed
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bluefish1



Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject: exiting power gybe with speed Reply with quote

Was trying to make clean power gybes last week. I complete about 8 out of 10, never with full plane out. What Iím trying to get a handle on is the sheeting in. Why is it so important to sheet in? It seems when I do, I loose speed. If I keep some pressure in the sail until the clew first burst, at least I keep going better. Sailing downwind puts very little pressure on the sail if powered up? Iím sure if I had a video it would be obvious, but no access to that. Iíve got the going fast on a broad reach down, the staying low, the carving, the bending of knees, the looking in the direction of the exit, the foot change (not to far back on the board), the sail flip. Any ideas why I cant come out with speed? My guess is somethingís going wrong in the sail flip.
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 1079
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complete your turn while you're still on a plane. You're sailing downwind too far.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1010

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed in equals speed out. Lots of people look for a calm spot to turn. That will not work because you need power to keep your board speed after the sail flip. The reasons you keep the sail in before the flip are, if you sheet out while heading down wind you present the full sail to the wind. If your going slower than the wind this will apply power to the sail and force you to lean back to avoid the pull of the sail. Leaning back causes your board to stall.
Also sheeting out puts the whole boom length across the board toward in inside of the turn. If you carve you hard, can stick the clue end into the water. Sheeting out also makes impossible to get your board onto the inside rail. Over sheet your sail as you carve into your turn at speed. Bend your knees and lean forward and into the sail. This will drive the front of your board down. If you look at any board, most of the rocker is up front of the mast track. Thats the part of the board that makes you turn. The forward lean also helps keep the board flat on exit and will keep its speed better. Weather you step with the sail or step after the flip be quick with your feet and be ready in a balanced position to head out of the turn and into the straps....
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1434
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand correctly, the "sheeting in" to which you refer is the over-sheeting thing that some people do when they initiate their jibes.

Oversheeting the sail does two things:
-gives you a short boost of speed
-stalls the sail

Of course you will only get that little acceleration with good technique. For me this is a transition between counterbalancing the sail to balancing on the board while carving. You can do this transition without oversheeting. What I see most people do is turn downwind, holding onto the sail the whole time and leaning back against the pull of the sail. The pull of the sail has not been translated to board speed and so the person slows down and flipping the sail is an abrupt transition from leaning back against the pull of the sail to balancing on the board.

This is better explained by someone who teaches others. Sorry.

You will also see good sailors pump the board through the turn a little bit... kind of like loading up skis/snowboard in a turn. This often happens right before the hips open up in a step jibe.

Board trim through the carve is also critical.

Planing jibes are hard to master. You have to put some serious TOW and also want to work on the nuances. That you're asking for tips is good!

I learned a lot about jibing from the Alan Cadiz video. Also Andy Brandt.

there's some backymount POV footage of a jibe that shows the oversheet (one hand in this case). you can slow it down in youtube by clicking the settings button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0cmHjyu5Y

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Sunset Sailboards, San Francisco CA
http://www.sunsetsailboards.com
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 816
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rule that comes to mind is if you aren't accelerating going in
you won't come out on the plane.
Basically get as much momentum build up as you can and
don't do anything to put the brakes on.
Unless you are in a blow where you can plane downwind.

Mostly what Novaan said.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:35 am    Post subject: Re: exiting power gybe with speed Reply with quote

bluefish1 wrote:
Iím sure if I had a video it would be obvious, but no access to that. Iíve got the going fast on a broad reach down, the staying low, the carving, the bending of knees, the looking in the direction of the exit, the foot change (not to far back on the board), the sail flip. Any ideas why I cant come out with speed?


I've been teaching & coaching for a very long time. One common thread in all those years is a disconnect between what people think they are doing & what they are actually doing. What you think you are doing & what you are doing may be two different things. If you do not have access to a gopro can you have someone video you doing a jibe?

Without further information we are just taking shots in the dark on what ails your jibes. What you describe sound like you are jibing in a lull instead of a gust. If you jibe powered up in a gust you will immediately know why you need to sheet in so it sounds like you are jibing in lulls.

Maybe try a duck jibe. It would increase your chances of planing out of the jibe.

Coachg
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3115

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding in simple terms is that you must have geat speed, then you sheet in as you initiate the turn and coast through the turn, with minimum drag, weight forward to keep the nose down. You don't want any sail power in the middle half of the turn.

In the middle of the turn, you should be going faster than the wind, so if you sheet out, that will slow you down. Remember that in a 20 knot wind, you should have at least 25 knots of board speed, so if you turn downwind and maintain that speed (or accelerate some as you bear off) , you should be going 5+ knots faster than the wind. You have to keep the sail sheeted in to minimize drag.

One mistake I frequently make is that at the end of the turn, I carve too sharply and tighten the radius and lose speed and don't plane out of the turn.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1697

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1: What CoachG said (In particular: What you think you are doing & what you are doing may be two different things. If you do not have access to a gopro can you have someone video you doing a jibe? AND

Maybe try a duck jibe. It would increase your chances of planing out of the jibe.)

2. Left to take shots in the dark, common mistakes are to carving too broad a jibe, and flipping the sail way too late. Beware of "carve fascination"...holding the carving pose as you rip into the turn because it feels good. The moment you're done sheeting in is the moment you must begin to open the sail to start the flip. Otherwise you plane through 2/3 of the jibe, and then are flipping the sail (ie have no power) as the board falls off the plane. You need to have power before that.

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Michael
http://www.peconicpuffin.com
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18605

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google and/or SEARCH this site for "Mike Fick's Jibe tips" .
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 469

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geezzz

Watch Dasher's "12 Step Gybe" Probably the best carving video made.

Now on YOUTube for free!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoK92cjj_kY

Really, this video breaks the carving gybe down into 12 steps and if you watch it enough and practice the steps in small chunks, you too can enjoy the carving gybe.

KMF
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